Sonos Version 6.4 Now in Public Beta



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What a dream native apps using google chromecast being able to cast to sonos as well being announced..fingers crossed ;O)
Not sure if the chromecasts being able to use 5ghz would give tech issues, but force them to only use 2.4ghz somehow must be possible.


You'd get more issues forcing them onto the crowded 2.4ghz spectrum than you would leaving them on 5ghz it's far less congested.
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What a dream native apps using google chromecast being able to cast to sonos as well being announced..fingers crossed ;O)
Not sure if the chromecasts being able to use 5ghz would give tech issues, but force them to only use 2.4ghz somehow must be possible.
Yes, I agree with Chris. This is not Sonos' market.

AirPlay streams the music via the mobile/tablet, so it needs to always be on and present.

Chromecast or some equivalent method of streaming the online music service direct to the Sonos devices would be a much better idea.

I wonder what the announcement on the 30th August will reveal in regards to 'casting' music direct from other third party apps?
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No and please never
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Just do Sonos the biggest best favour possible! ADD AIRPLAY!!!!!
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I think the play now inserting after the current playing song is a step forward from end of queue. If your playing music and want it to be immediately next you would want the queue to continue after not stop.

Respect the Queue
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Yep Ratty method is exactly as you would expect it to behave.
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Agreed, ratty's solution was a good suggestion. There were some other ideas as well I made sure to pass on over.
Ryan S,

In regards to the 'Play Now' feature with the exhausted queue... I think it's easy to 'temporarily' live with that, once a user realises that the inserted track/playlist is being inserted at the queue-focus. It's also obvious that the focus needs to shift back to the beginning of a queue ready to play it again when the queue has finished playing.

I think Ratty's suggestion though, was a very good solution and that is to query if the current queue is actually playing a track at the point the 'Play Now' function is chosen by the user... If the queue is playing, it interrupts the track and places the chosen track/playlist below it and begins to play the new selection, which is how it works currently in the beta.

On the other hand, if the queue is NOT playing at the time the 'Play Now' function is selected by the user ... Then the new selected song(s) could be added to the end of the current queue instead and then begin playing the newly inserted playlist.

I thought that seemed a very good solution from Ratty.

I hope I have managed to explain that clearly for everyone to understand the slight difference... so it just needs to query if the queue is currently playing a song before deciding how to handle the 'Play Now' function.

Just one possible solution that I thought would be good to highlight as a suggestion to the design team.

Credit of course to Ratty for the above.
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Thanks Ryan - checkbox in settings that makes clicking on song name do the same exact thing as if you hit the (...) and problem completely solved. Everyone would have their way and it would not be confusing when others visit house as if they were experienced Sonos users they would be clicking the (...) instead of the song name anyhow (not wanting to interrupt other people music).

I believe if you go back to old threads of people wanting Play from Now a slider to switch between behaviors was always considered the solution. Just have a slider called Party Mode somewhere and for now it does this (but opens us up to having other Party Mode features in the future).

This whole debate opens up that the real problem is no kind of Party Mode (Queue protection mode). As with Party Mode Sonos should act like a Jukebox - with normal users only having the ability to add to end of queue (where the master controller of the owner can re-arrange, control volume, control grouping). I know this isn't going to happen now - but if the developers commited to doing a party mode in future releases I could live with the mess of this controller version.

Dang it I posted again!!! Can I be like blocked from this thread 🙂 I need to toggle this thread off!
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Lots of passion in this thread and on this topic as well, thanks for your feedback everyone. The design team is hearing your feedback from here, and also from the beta feedback forms, so please make sure to keep sending that in, I'm sure you all are already.

I think at the end of playing the queue, the 'focus' jumps to track position -1 and the queue is then ready to play again. So when 'PLAY NOW' is chosen, it inserts the new track at position -2 and begins playing.

This might just be down to end-user expectations? It is a good point though for further discussion.


I checked in on this and the consensus here is correct as to the cause of the "Play Now" behavior with exhausted queues. At the end of a Queue, the players switch back to the first song so that you can just hit "Play" on a controller or player to restart the queue. Because of the return to the first track, when you choose another song to "Play Now" or even an album or playlist they get added as the second track and beyond. But it builds a sort of playlist within the old playlist.

We know this can be a bit messy when you wind up waiting until after all tracks are done. The two features are working as intended, but in this case they could use a bit of fine tuning when working together. They'll be looking into it, but I can't say for sure if this will be changed at the moment.

The best ways around this would be to use "Add to Queue" and then start the latest added track you wanted. Otherwise, you could use pause on the last song instead of letting it finish, but that isn't exactly a good solution. With the new design, the Sonos Queue is generally more fluid and temporary than previously.

Yes a one-click off toggle in settings and the controller is fine - forces the > menu to always be used which is what the old version was (just that clicking action brought up that menu previously - which is hard habit to break instinctively)

One click has been tailored for the new method - just make an advanced setting option to turn off one click and I think all would be fine clicking on the > instead of the song name and pretty much is the same as old version then. No one would then accidentally click on song and get the pop up warning or have music stop.

Ryan can you pass that along (although I know they hate user definable options).


You got it, I'll pass it on for you. Generally definable options aren't the direction the team likes to go. Keeping everything on the same settings helps with a lot of facets, from troubleshooting to testing, along with making sure your friends with Sonos know how to use yours.
If the touch controllers allowed multiple selections, so many of things that are unbelievably cumbersome to achieve now would be so much quicker - including adding multiple tracks from albums and play lists.

sjw,

Yes that's a very good point and clever forward thinking and definitely something that's needed for future tablets and mobiles. In Windows PC (as far back as I can remember) they have always used the ’ctrl-key' for building a selection and the 'shift-key' to select items between a start and end-point. Having something similar on both Android/iOS mobiles and tablets and available within the Sonos controller app would be quite a huge step forward.

Certainly something for the not-too-distant future perhaps. It certainly would help with quickly building some customised playlists across multiple music sources etc.
Toggling one click off in settings is good idea to solve Chris's issue though I myself would never toggle it. But sure, implementing a switch in settings would solve the problem for anyone who finds it a problem.

Yes, I would be happy to toggle off the 'Play Now' feature in the Sonos controller settings just for the songs tab (results list) and thus bring back the context menu as the default option for a single tap on a track in that list. I think that's a fair compromise... Those that want it, can then enable that feature.

I would even be happy with the feature working that way for now and maybe an undertaking to introduce such a toggle-switch at some later stage in development to reintroduce the one-click 'Play Now' option, particularly if that helps prevent other users from inadvertently interrupting their currently playing queue by accident.

However I guess this has to be a decision for Sonos to make. I am happy to abide with anything they decide, even if things don't go as I would have hoped. I think there are plenty of other good features in the beta to let this one thing get in the way and maybe cause a long delay, or put a stop to its eventual release.

I think compromise has to be achieved somehow for these things and maybe that should be sooner, rather than later. What I'm also thinking about here, is that there might be a deadline to get this version out prior to the announcements on the 30th Aug. I'm just guessing though, that might be the case.
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If the touch controllers allowed multiple selections, so many of things that are unbelievably cumbersome to achieve now would be so much quicker - including adding multiple tracks from albums and play lists.
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or if you didn't want the pop up hit the .... and chose Play Now. 2 clicks and only when it is an edited queue not when just playing music without editing.

Note: I left off that Billy Bob probably had too much to drink when he forgot.

Last comment on ... I have given my opinion.
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Chris, yes in that scenario, a pop up would be helpful but this would mean that we have to endure a pop up everytime we wish to play a track (in edited queue) just to cover the odd circumstance that Billy Bob has come over and hasn't yet understand the very simple way of adding vs playing a searched song.

Other than that, it doesn't matter that it interrupts the currently playing queue. If I have clicked on the song, I want it to interrupt the queue and start playing, that is the very reason I clicked it in the first place.

As Ratty mentioned before, the queue is always in use, whether we have edited it or just started a new album from fresh, once the music is playing, the queue is playing. If I click on a searched song, it should and does play immediately in the currently playing queue. As it doesn't replace the queue, no warning required.

I guess we can go back and forth like this all day, we won't convince each other. My main two points to make in regard to your posts are:

1) The only scenario I see your way useful is to prevent accidental playing and I don't feel this is a reason to enforce an annoying pop up warning every 99 times out of a 100 we deliberately wish to play the searched for song to protect the 1 out of 100 times, Billy bob made a mistake

2) I felt it important to throw my 2 pennies worth into this discussion as your earlier posts made this behaviour sound like an obvious bug that needs fixing/refining when in fact, I feel they have it spot on.

😃
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But it stops the current playing music. The music in queue stopping abruptly is about as bad as the queue being replaced. That is our fundamental difference in opinion (nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion).

You have people over at your house. You have music playing and are building a nice queue of requests people want to hear that night.

Billy Bob whoever looks for his favorite song on the controller. Finds it. Clicks on song. Now all of a sudden the music stops and we all get to hear Billy Bob's song - Thanks a lot Billy Bob. Well Billy Bob didn't mean to butt in line and turn off Jane Doe's favorite song she was enjoying at that moment. All he did was click on the song. No warning ... no options. Jane Doe very mad at Billy Bob.

Note: Not giving the untrained Billy Bob the controller is not the answer. Sharing of music in a group is a fundamental part of what has made Sonos successful. It is the reason even before this version of the controller that people have asked repeatedly for a party mode that would disable play now (even disable ability to control volume, groups etc. by other users). We have taken a step back with the new controller when it comes to multi-user use that makes Party Mode even more critical to have if issue not corrected.
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gtrance - realize when I say a pop up warning for play now I'm talking about the pop up only happening when queue has been edited. Just like pop up happens when you click on song/album you browsed to in library. If you haven't edited the queue it of course wouldn't pop up the message. I'm am talking about with edited queue only in all my comments. If the queue has not been edited then no pop ups occur at all.

Are you saying that if the queue has been edited and in a case where you are listening to a queue, not individually playing songs/albums, that you would still want the single press of a song to stop the currently playing song and play immediately?


Yes Chris. As playing the searched song does not replace the queue, but merely inserts itself into the current position, there is no need to pop up the queue edited warning. For albums, playlists where they will replace the queue then of course the "queue edited" warning is essential (I've been thankful for the warning a few times already) but for playing a single searched for song that will not replace the queue, why would we need a warning.

Queue has been edited.

I search a song, and wish to listen immediately. I click it, It plays in the queues current position and then the rest of the queue continues as before. Perfect.

Or:

Queue has been edited.

I search song, wish to listen immediately, click it and a box pops up warning me the queue has been edited. So? It's not replacing the queue so why does it matter whether the queue has been edited or not? I've clicked it because I wish to play it. My queue may be edited, doesn't matter. If I click the song, its because I want to play the song, otherwise I would click the 3 dots button.

Again, if it were replacing the edited queue that would be different but it only inserts itself into the queue's current position so no warning required.
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And, I continue to not fully understand why a segment of users is so adamant about the "play from here" characteristic. Yes, this is the way Cylinders, 78's, LP's, Cassettes, and CD's worked, but this was just the physical reality, not a deliberate "feature". With hard drive based music, I don't understand why we need to emulate this legacy reality because random access is so easy. For me, the random access characteristic is liberating. Certainly, "play from here" can easily be implemented for those who want it, but I prefer that it not be the default.


Because a segment of users (majority of users?) often like to listen to playlist or album but possibly not from track one and this makes it very simple to do just that. The old way required so many clicks to achieve such a simple thing, it was very frustrating and made the sonos system feel clunky and backwards in this regard. Before, when wishing to play an album or playlist from the middle, it required adding the whole lot then going to queue and finding the track we wish to start from and selecting it. Now we can just click it. Much better.

I do use the queue and often add tracks to the queue and make queue edits. But I do this when I have time at home, listening to music and building my queue as I please. But far more often in everyday use, I don't have time for adding and building a queue. I may be getting ready for work, getting the kids dressed, bathed, cooking dinner whatever. For these far more regular uses, I just want to hit play and go.

There is no right or wrong way in how we each use Sonos and listen to music so some will always prefer one way to another. But what grates with me is posts from yourself and others who seem to refuse to understand/accept why many users prefer the new beta way of playing music compared to before.
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gtrance - realize when I say a pop up warning for play now I'm talking about the pop up only happening when queue has been edited. Just like pop up happens when you click on song/album you browsed to in library. If you haven't edited the queue it of course wouldn't pop up the message. I'm am talking about with edited queue only in all my comments. If the queue has not been edited then no pop ups occur at all.

Are you saying that if the queue has been edited and in a case where you are listening to a queue, not individually playing songs/albums, that you would still want the single press of a song to stop the currently playing song and play immediately?
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Toggling one click off in settings is good idea to solve Chris's issue though I myself would never toggle it. But sure, implementing a switch in settings would solve the problem for anyone who finds it a problem.
Android build 331532141 seems a little more friendly. If I use the "..." options or press and hold on a track, I can add a single track to the Queue. I'm somewhat perplexed with the quick tap sometimes popping up the Edit Queue warning and other times simply replacing the Queue. In the "pass the controller around during a party" operational mode, I don't think that is is useful for the first user to encounter the popup warning, while subsequent users do not see the warning.

And, I continue to not fully understand why a segment of users is so adamant about the "play from here" characteristic. Yes, this is the way Cylinders, 78's, LP's, Cassettes, and CD's worked, but this was just the physical reality, not a deliberate "feature". With hard drive based music, I don't understand why we need to emulate this legacy reality because random access is so easy. For me, the random access characteristic is liberating. Certainly, "play from here" can easily be implemented for those who want it, but I prefer that it not be the default.
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Chris, I understand your reasoning but I still overall disagree with you.

I feel the way it behaves now when clicking on a song in search is exactly as it should behave. For the queue has been edited warning to pop up, this would be plain wrong. If in fact you are not asking for the "queue edited" warning but instead a menu popup with play now, play next etc then this is more sensible but I still think its better as it is.

For every person like yourself who wants a menu pop up to prevent "accidentally clicking on the song" there are plenty of others would be frustrated to have a menu pop up every time they want to play a song they have searched for instead of just playing it. As it doesn't replace the queue, no warnings are needed.

Okay, so if you accidentally click the song rather than the 3 dots button to the right, it will start playing but this would be the user's fault for clicking the song rather than the menu button. You can learn this but your friends who come over might click the song by mistake? Is it really that hard to tell them, "no don't click the song, click the menu button and add to queue"? They wouldn't learn this soon enough?

Is it really better to have a menu pop up EVERY time we wish to play a searched song just to avoid the occasional accidental play by new/inexperienced users?
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Yes a one-click off toggle in settings and the controller is fine - forces the > menu to always be used which is what the old version was (just that clicking action brought up that menu previously - which is hard habit to break instinctively)

One click has been tailored for the new method - just make an advanced setting option to turn off one click and I think all would be fine clicking on the > instead of the song name and pretty much is the same as old version then. No one would then accidentally click on song and get the pop up warning or have music stop.

Ryan can you pass that along (although I know they hate user definable options).
I don't agree about the Play Now feature inserting the track as just being an oversight or a bug... Before, in v6.3 the 'Play' context menu option (to the best of my memory) added the chosen track to the bottom of the existing queue, the queue stopped playing the track it was playing (if any) and began playing the chosen last track added. The entire (remaining) queue was effectively 'skipped' by the 'Play action, just to play the one newly added track. Then afterwards the music simply stopped.

The new 'Play Now' feature adds the track to below the current 'focus' of the queue and so in most cases it inserts the track into the existing queue and plays it and then the rest of the queue that follows it is then played... So effectively the music just keeps on playing to the end of the queue.


Ken, its a bug. If it was a feature, it would have inserted the new material at position 0, so that the subsequent queue replay included the whole queue, and didn't skip track #1. ... What kind of "feature" would that be?

I guess whatever happens with the ongoing development of this beta, its nigh on impossible to please all the people, all the time.

Now that it is becoming a mature piece of s/w, and growing into other customer sets, maybe they just have to start using the neglected Manage|Settings menu option a bit more heartily.

It is good that you are getting positive things from the changes. There are some changes in there that I like also. With just a few configuration settings, and a bug fix 🙂, we could all be as happy as you are. ... 1-Click on|off would do the trick, although maybe Amazon would have something to say about that.