Sonos Version 6.4 Now in Public Beta



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Toggling one click off in settings is good idea to solve Chris's issue though I myself would never toggle it. But sure, implementing a switch in settings would solve the problem for anyone who finds it a problem.

Yes, I would be happy to toggle off the 'Play Now' feature in the Sonos controller settings just for the songs tab (results list) and thus bring back the context menu as the default option for a single tap on a track in that list. I think that's a fair compromise... Those that want it, can then enable that feature.

I would even be happy with the feature working that way for now and maybe an undertaking to introduce such a toggle-switch at some later stage in development to reintroduce the one-click 'Play Now' option, particularly if that helps prevent other users from inadvertently interrupting their currently playing queue by accident.

However I guess this has to be a decision for Sonos to make. I am happy to abide with anything they decide, even if things don't go as I would have hoped. I think there are plenty of other good features in the beta to let this one thing get in the way and maybe cause a long delay, or put a stop to its eventual release.

I think compromise has to be achieved somehow for these things and maybe that should be sooner, rather than later. What I'm also thinking about here, is that there might be a deadline to get this version out prior to the announcements on the 30th Aug. I'm just guessing though, that might be the case.
If the touch controllers allowed multiple selections, so many of things that are unbelievably cumbersome to achieve now would be so much quicker - including adding multiple tracks from albums and play lists.

sjw,

Yes that's a very good point and clever forward thinking and definitely something that's needed for future tablets and mobiles. In Windows PC (as far back as I can remember) they have always used the ’ctrl-key' for building a selection and the 'shift-key' to select items between a start and end-point. Having something similar on both Android/iOS mobiles and tablets and available within the Sonos controller app would be quite a huge step forward.

Certainly something for the not-too-distant future perhaps. It certainly would help with quickly building some customised playlists across multiple music sources etc.
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Lots of passion in this thread and on this topic as well, thanks for your feedback everyone. The design team is hearing your feedback from here, and also from the beta feedback forms, so please make sure to keep sending that in, I'm sure you all are already.

I think at the end of playing the queue, the 'focus' jumps to track position -1 and the queue is then ready to play again. So when 'PLAY NOW' is chosen, it inserts the new track at position -2 and begins playing.

This might just be down to end-user expectations? It is a good point though for further discussion.


I checked in on this and the consensus here is correct as to the cause of the "Play Now" behavior with exhausted queues. At the end of a Queue, the players switch back to the first song so that you can just hit "Play" on a controller or player to restart the queue. Because of the return to the first track, when you choose another song to "Play Now" or even an album or playlist they get added as the second track and beyond. But it builds a sort of playlist within the old playlist.

We know this can be a bit messy when you wind up waiting until after all tracks are done. The two features are working as intended, but in this case they could use a bit of fine tuning when working together. They'll be looking into it, but I can't say for sure if this will be changed at the moment.

The best ways around this would be to use "Add to Queue" and then start the latest added track you wanted. Otherwise, you could use pause on the last song instead of letting it finish, but that isn't exactly a good solution. With the new design, the Sonos Queue is generally more fluid and temporary than previously.

Yes a one-click off toggle in settings and the controller is fine - forces the > menu to always be used which is what the old version was (just that clicking action brought up that menu previously - which is hard habit to break instinctively)

One click has been tailored for the new method - just make an advanced setting option to turn off one click and I think all would be fine clicking on the > instead of the song name and pretty much is the same as old version then. No one would then accidentally click on song and get the pop up warning or have music stop.

Ryan can you pass that along (although I know they hate user definable options).


You got it, I'll pass it on for you. Generally definable options aren't the direction the team likes to go. Keeping everything on the same settings helps with a lot of facets, from troubleshooting to testing, along with making sure your friends with Sonos know how to use yours.
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Thanks Ryan - checkbox in settings that makes clicking on song name do the same exact thing as if you hit the (...) and problem completely solved. Everyone would have their way and it would not be confusing when others visit house as if they were experienced Sonos users they would be clicking the (...) instead of the song name anyhow (not wanting to interrupt other people music).

I believe if you go back to old threads of people wanting Play from Now a slider to switch between behaviors was always considered the solution. Just have a slider called Party Mode somewhere and for now it does this (but opens us up to having other Party Mode features in the future).

This whole debate opens up that the real problem is no kind of Party Mode (Queue protection mode). As with Party Mode Sonos should act like a Jukebox - with normal users only having the ability to add to end of queue (where the master controller of the owner can re-arrange, control volume, control grouping). I know this isn't going to happen now - but if the developers commited to doing a party mode in future releases I could live with the mess of this controller version.

Dang it I posted again!!! Can I be like blocked from this thread 🙂 I need to toggle this thread off!
Ryan S,

In regards to the 'Play Now' feature with the exhausted queue... I think it's easy to 'temporarily' live with that, once a user realises that the inserted track/playlist is being inserted at the queue-focus. It's also obvious that the focus needs to shift back to the beginning of a queue ready to play it again when the queue has finished playing.

I think Ratty's suggestion though, was a very good solution and that is to query if the current queue is actually playing a track at the point the 'Play Now' function is chosen by the user... If the queue is playing, it interrupts the track and places the chosen track/playlist below it and begins to play the new selection, which is how it works currently in the beta.

On the other hand, if the queue is NOT playing at the time the 'Play Now' function is selected by the user ... Then the new selected song(s) could be added to the end of the current queue instead and then begin playing the newly inserted playlist.

I thought that seemed a very good solution from Ratty.

I hope I have managed to explain that clearly for everyone to understand the slight difference... so it just needs to query if the queue is currently playing a song before deciding how to handle the 'Play Now' function.

Just one possible solution that I thought would be good to highlight as a suggestion to the design team.

Credit of course to Ratty for the above.
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Agreed, ratty's solution was a good suggestion. There were some other ideas as well I made sure to pass on over.
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Yep Ratty method is exactly as you would expect it to behave.
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I think the play now inserting after the current playing song is a step forward from end of queue. If your playing music and want it to be immediately next you would want the queue to continue after not stop.

Respect the Queue
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Just do Sonos the biggest best favour possible! ADD AIRPLAY!!!!!
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No and please never
Yes, I agree with Chris. This is not Sonos' market.

AirPlay streams the music via the mobile/tablet, so it needs to always be on and present.

Chromecast or some equivalent method of streaming the online music service direct to the Sonos devices would be a much better idea.

I wonder what the announcement on the 30th August will reveal in regards to 'casting' music direct from other third party apps?
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What a dream native apps using google chromecast being able to cast to sonos as well being announced..fingers crossed ;O)
Not sure if the chromecasts being able to use 5ghz would give tech issues, but force them to only use 2.4ghz somehow must be possible.
What a dream native apps using google chromecast being able to cast to sonos as well being announced..fingers crossed ;O)
Not sure if the chromecasts being able to use 5ghz would give tech issues, but force them to only use 2.4ghz somehow must be possible.


You'd get more issues forcing them onto the crowded 2.4ghz spectrum than you would leaving them on 5ghz it's far less congested.
With regard to the Android controller:

It seems to me that we are debating between operating by classic Sonos rules, which I like, and adopting "iTunes mode" (but it can't be called this without attracting lawyers).

Sonos is loath to add any system level options. I think that they see this as complicating support. But, following modern "best practices," there is no hesitation to adding endless drill downs. I'm a track by track person and "play from here" is a complete turn-off for me. This is one major reason why I refused to adopt iPods. Now, I must drill down two or more screens in order to play only one track.

I would appreciate a "Classic" (SONOS) or "Modern" (iTunes) operator mode -- set at the system level. I don't think that this needs to complicate support. There could be a subtle change to the screens such that "Classic" and "Modern" could be quickly determined by asking the user a single question. There is no need to drill down the setup screens.

Why are we doing this? Is the case that support has been flooded by befuddled iTunes users stumbling over the Queue? Or has there been a flood of complaints by iTunes users that the user interface is not working as it should (the iTunes way is the only way)? If it is the latter, then I'm doomed to be trapped in an iTunes world because there are more "Moderns" than "Classics".

With the new user interface it is a lot of work to play only one track. And, it is rather easy to lose my Queue.

Would it be reasonable to use "Modern" mode on iDevices and "Classic" mode on Androids? The assumption being that Android types are more open to alternative user interfaces while iDevice users would prefer to stay with iTunes-like interactions.

I'm OK with the Windows DCR because I can drag and drop a track on the Queue -- at the Queue location of my choice.
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I agree with buzz
I agree with buzz

I don't know where buzz gets the idea that the new Sonos beta software works like iTunes, or iPod, or any Apple software. It most certainly does not operate like the more recent Apple Music App. I have used them all and none of these things load up the complete album, or playlist, when selecting a single track to play. The Apple Music app now on all iOS devices including iPod, has a queue that I would describe as operating similar to v6.3 of the Sonos software, which can be shuffled or edited after the queue has been loaded.

The beta, if anything, is totally different to what iOS users are used to. I say that as a user of iOS and iTunes for over 8 years.

Where I do agree 'slightly' with buzz, is that I think users should have the option to choose how things work, I suspect iOS and iTunes users would actually choose his 'classic'-described mode, but probably avid users of Spotify would select the more recent 'modern' option.

However, I also like to side with Sonos in many respects, who clearly want their all-in-one controller to work in the exact same way on every single mobile and tablet, in every home. The idea being, a Sonos user can then go to anyones audio system, during a party for example, and it will operate the same way for all, just as if it were their own controller and they will immediately be able to take 'control' and play music, without having to think about it and without any adjustment to the software settings.

Once customisation creeps into an app, it can eventually change things beyond recognition, the proof of that is evident in the Windows Operating system and many other Microsoft products.

Sonos are attempting to find the 'common ground' for operation of their devices, but such things will likely never please everyone, but the majority of users should be happy in the end.

It's a difficult task for Sonos and I applaud them for trying and that's despite the beta not being what I am used to. It certainly adds more tracks to my queue than before and I am most certainly listening to more music, but this modern way, may not be for some classic people, who are not prepared to accept change.
It seems to me that we are debating between operating by classic Sonos rules, which I like, and adopting "iTunes mode" (but it can't be called this without attracting lawyers). .... [snip] ...Why are we doing this? Is the case that support has been flooded by befuddled iTunes users stumbling over the Queue? Or has there been a flood of complaints by iTunes users that the user interface is not working as it should (the iTunes way is the only way)?
Hi Buzz,
just guessing, but I assume that their intention is just to make it easier for people to get music started, and to keep it running.

It is for people who like the way a light switch switch operates; one click and the light goes on, and there is no need to click the button again every four and half minutes (or however long it is that the average track runs for).

I think that the "classic Sonos rules" are to fill every room with aural wallpaper, and sadly not every room contains an actual music lover such as yourself. ... I don't think that it has much to do with imitating Apple.

The sad fact is that Sonos has never been targeted to actual music lovers. Otherwise how could you account for long term omissions like the composer not being displayed on the Now Playing screen. The music browsing experience was surprisingly lame on day one, and 11 or so years later has barely improved, other than the nice (semi)-universal search facility. ... I see these new UI changes as just more of the same.

With the new user interface it is a lot of work to play only one track. And, it is rather easy to lose my Queue.

You can play 1 track with 'Add to end of queue', if you get in quick before the queue is exhausted. ... But the new changes are disappointing in a number of ways if you wait until the queue ends, as I prefer to retain the day's queue, just as I have for the last seven years.

I think that one good thing about the new changes is that when the queue is protected (aka edited), you get a confirmation question to avoid accidental destruction of the queue, unless it is obvious from your menu choice that you want to do so ("Replace queue" for example). ... It is a pity that you have to do something artificial like queue an album, and them re-add the last track, and then delete it just to put the queue into a protected state.


Why are we doing this? Is the case that support has been flooded by befuddled iTunes users stumbling over the Queue?

I think that support may be getting a rude shock if these changes get released as-is. There is nothing too intuitive about them if you ask me. ie. Play Next plays All From Here ... or Play Next, where the queue is exhausted, is pushing the material into queue position #2, so that most of the queue gets repeated ... or that Play Next when the queue is exhausted doesn't cause anything to be played, it just adds the items to the queue (in the wrong place) .... or that the queue is protected only after multiple items have been individually queued

I was going to add "or that Play Now against a track, which has been found via a track search, destroys the queue "without confirmation" ... but this seems to be fixed, so that's progress. ... You seeing this Chris?
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That Sonos operates the way it does is because it does. It does not need to emulate other programmes which would only serve to confuse.
I find the Sonos way to be very intuitive and logical. That it requires some user input to master is not a bad thing.
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I avoid tapping on anything so much now I haven't checked. I will tonight. Play now track click single track didn't delete queue but interrupted music previously.
I avoid tapping on anything so much now I haven't checked. I will tonight. Play now track click single track didn't delete queue but interrupted music previously.
oh my bad .... doesn't seem to interrupt the current track now.
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That would be good news. Will report back tonight from my end.
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I don't have a clue why buzz is so insistent that the beta appears to be mimicking iDevices or is in any way to appease iTunes users. Unless it's based on assumptions or memories of use from many years ago and none in between? I don't see the similarity to be honest - and the suggestion of 'i' users seeing a different interface by default based on the assumption of one set of users being more open to alternatives is surely baseless - and one that I see as leading to more support issues, not less.
I own no 'i' devices but sometimes some of the things written here/stated as fact about all things Apple are so wrong or misleading it's bizarre. But it appears to be just as cool to 'diss' Apple as those who religiously follow them think it is to do so.

Similar to Chris, I now find myself using the system less lately as I'm just not sure sometimes which button to press to get the outcome I desire - or even if it possible. I was listening happily to my queue the other day ( a playlist in random mode - but the order was unimportant) and wanted to interrupt it and play a whole album in order. I didn't want to lose the queue but had no visual sign of even knowing if the queue was somehow 'protected' or what would happen if I pressed a particular button - never mind dwelled on one for slightly too long...
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It would be nice to have a toggle in the queue to protect it. Like a lock switch.
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Wow I was just thinking a lock switch at top of queue screen that locks the queue from deletion and adds all new songs to end of queue until unlocked. Man that would be perfect. The message screen when play all or play now side could say it queue is locked. Then you chose when to lock queue vs software trying decide when it thinks it should Protect. That would be incredible option and pretty self explanatory from a support standpoint.
Wow I was just thinking a lock switch at top of queue screen.
Yes, sounds great, especially with that "Auto-lock queue?" setting that would go in Manage|Settings|MusicLibrary|Advanced 🙂