Sonos Version 5.5 - Update Now Available


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Again, you are incorrect. Sonos has an extensive feedback system in it's Beta testing program, and conducts regular surveys with people who sign up for the Beta. If you were a Beta tester, you would have seen this. You may feel they have a tin ear to your needs, but from the sounds of it, you never said anything until now. Pretty tough to have a tin ear to silence.
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You said it yourself, those techies who have the time and are willing to put up with the problems of being beta testers have the inside track with Sonos and the rest of us can go pound sand. And no, putting it up for beta testing is not putting it out to all Sonos users at large, nor is it possible, if one is not in the beta program to have said something of which one was never made aware.

Beta testing is supposed to help a developer spot problems with a piece of software. It's not supposed to be some sort of insiders club for input on a product. Of course, it appears that Sonos has succumbed to just this model and of course, has ended up favoring one group of insiders over users who aren't part of that group as to the feature set in the new app.

Again, if you're going to delete functionality, you owe it to your customers to find out what matters to ALL of them, not just the insiders.
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This has been public beta for a long time and I don't think was ever an insider thing. The complaints about folders have been out there for months but Sonos has said with the new Api that Spotify came out with they don't have the previous access. So they lost some things and gained many others. The asking for folders back (which you should address to Spotify as well since they need to change their Api) is a legitimate concern and rightful thing to want back a demand. However the whole insiders thing and Sonos doesn't listen to customers back and forth helps nothing get accomplished or have any truth to it.
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"Public" beta means that those who have signed up for and are willing to participate in it. It excludes the rest of the Sonos community who don't have the time, expertise or patience to deal with it. So, it's "public" solely in the highly limited and circumscribed sense that all of the beta testers knew of it.

Which leaves the rest of the Sonos community in the dark until the subtraction of functionality simply happens without any advance warning.

Nice.
Did you ask how many are part of the beta team? I've gotten the assumption that its a pretty big crowd, which represents the interests of all of us. If you don't have the time to participate, it's your problem. Everyone already said... this was a Spotify decision... not Sonos. Take it up with Spotify. Sonos can only work with the tools with which they are given.
Crescentan wrote:

And no, putting it up for beta testing is not putting it out to all Sonos users at large, nor is it possible, if one is not in the beta program to have said something of which one was never made aware.



Sonos have put it out for users at large. It's called a release to the public. You are now part of the "inside" and have lodged your complaint. Perhaps you could wait until Sonos has a chance to act on your complaint before stating they have a "tin ear"?
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It's nice that Sonos has broken the functionality of Spotify in regard to these issues without prior warning. Putting an app into beta testing does not constitute any kind of warning except to those who choose to participate in it. It's completely invisible to the great mass of Sonos customers, I assure you.

Sonos has also said and you can see it in this discussion thread, that it has no plans to remedy this subtraction of functionality.

Therefore, my comments are for the specific purpose of inducing Sonos to consider reversing this stated position.
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Chris wrote:

left off the "but we'll let everyone know if there's anything to share."

That means no plans currently but will let you know if that changes. They do listen to customers.



Too bad they didn't think to ask first before they subtracted functionality, other than putting it out to the minority of Sonos customers who are beta testers.

I love my Sonos system, but I don't love having portions of its functionality which are important to me being arbitrarily withdrawn without prior notice, except of course to the tiny band of insider beta testers.
Are you even reading the responses? Sonos had nothing to do with it. Spotify changed the API. Sonos had no choice. So whether you had three months notice or like you experienced, it was going away. What difference would it have made?
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My complaints aren't addressed to you, they're addressed to Sonos and you're certainly not obligated to reply to them.

Thanks.
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Spotify didn't change anything. Prior to updating, I had folders. After updating, I had no folders. So this is a software change that Sonos has implemented, which has removed folders functionality. There may be technical reasons for having done this, but the fact remains that it is a Sonos development which has caused the problem.

I repeat, with no means of categorising and collating music, the usability of Spotify on Sonos has decreased markedly.

Sonos, some input as to how you intend to rectify this would be very helpful.
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Haven't looked through the four pages of comments so apologise if this has been mentioned, but I would like to see my music as albums, not just songs.
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Wow, apparently I'm a 'Novice'.
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it was obviously folders or all the other Spotify content listed previously. Sonos had to obviously chose content or folders and they chose additional content. Hopefully they can work with Spotify to adjust the new Spotify API to allow a folder view but they can't promise anything until Spotify decides to allow them to.
SteveM wrote:

Spotify didn't change anything. Prior to updating, I had folders. After updating, I had no folders. So this is a software change that Sonos has implemented, which has removed folders functionality. There may be technical reasons for having done this, but the fact remains that it is a Sonos development which has caused the problem.



Do you understand software development? Thing is, with a third party like Spotify, THEY dictate how access to their system is gained. They provide the tools to Sonos to make things happen (called their API). Spotify changed the API. Sonos had to adapt to their changed. Yes, Sonos' software changed, but it was at the bequest of Spotify. From what I understand, Spotify is adjusting the API to account for the shortcomings, which Sonos will then harness. Hope that makes sense.
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Sonos had to obviously chose content or folders and they chose additional content.

Sonos didn't have to obviously choose. Sonos could and should have waited until the folders issue was fixed before releasing this unfinished update. Maybe you weren't around a year or two ago (can't be exactly sure) when Sonos did a similar thing with an update to what I think was version 4.3. It was awful and the comments and complaints, including my own, were many and strongly worded. As then, it suggests that either the beta testers do not understand what users want and are paying for, or that Sonos don't listen and just do their own thing regardless. Taking folders away is a major blunder and this will become increasingly clear as time goes on and the complaints increase.
If you reply to this post Chris, understand that complaints about Sonos that you do not agree with are not trolling and are not an invitation for a personal attack on me or anyone else who's opinion you disagree with. Be polite :-)
Roger_6 wrote:

Sonos had to obviously chose content or folders and they chose additional content.



You're assuming they had a choice. From what I've read, they didn't. The new API they were forced to use doesn't support folders.
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Sorry, that bit about choosing was a quote from Chris about 3 posts above mine. I got the bit about putting a quote in wrong. My point is that if this folders thing can be fixed later as some are suggesting, then Sonos would have served its users better by waiting until such time as that fix could be built into the system.
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BlueCrystalMan wrote:

Did you ask how many are part of the beta team? I've gotten the assumption that its a pretty big crowd, which represents the interests of all of us. If you don't have the time to participate, it's your problem. Everyone already said... this was a Spotify decision... not Sonos. Take it up with Spotify. Sonos can only work with the tools with which they are given.



Said the insider who has no idea himself of the size of the beta community in relation to Sonos users as a whole. The beta users are of course likely to be at best only a few per cent at best of all Sonos users. Let's hear from Sonos, however. Surely they can tell us.
Crescentan wrote:

Said the insider who has no idea himself of the size of the beta community in relation to Sonos users as a whole. The beta users are of course likely to be at best only a few per cent at best of all Sonos users. Let's hear from Sonos, however. Surely they can tell us.



I'm not an insider, bro. I don't belong to the beta program. What I posted I gleaned from this thread, and I design software in real life, so my posts are based on my experience in working with third parties and on what I read here. Pretty sure Sonos stated their position earlier on.
Roger, people have been screaming at Sonos for YEARS to improve the spotify implementation, they've now dealt with several of the most requested issues, people have waited long enough it, making them wait even longer was never going to be acceptable.
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Sonos has already responded there is nothing more to respond to no matter how you badger everyone.
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The only points which Sonos itself has made to this thread, as far as I'm aware are: (1) there's a new update and it's awesome, (2) we're aware of the folder problem and have no plans at this time to address it.

I would comment that if you're not part of the beta community, then you, too, got no notice of the impending changes and had no input on what would be implemented. Spotify may have changed its API, but that hardly means that Sonos had to wholly passive in the fact of that change or couldn't have worked with Spotify to mitigate loss of functionality. Instead, all we get is, we know there's a problem and have no plans to fix it. Nice.

If I'm wrong, however, please let me know. Thanks.
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Chris wrote:

Sonos has already responded there is nothing more to respond to no matter how you badger everyone.



Just responding to the points being made about the situation. If you don't like them, please feel free to ignore them.

Thanks.
Crescentan wrote:

we're aware of the folder problem and have no plans at this time to address it.



Yeah but think about it... THEY have no plans to address it... because they can't. They're at the mercy of the API that Spotify controls. And you dont know (and neither do I) if their deal with Spotify says 'hey... always use the latest API or you can't provide our service.' I'm guessing that was the case here. Again, I'm not an insider nor part of the beta program... I'm just putting it out there as I understand it. Besides... history dictates that Sonos makes no announcements whatsoever about their plans... so even if they 'have no plans,' they may already have it fixed. :D

If it helps, I got burned by Microsoft last week after the big Mac OS update... I'm still waiting for Outlook 2011 to be fixed. They know there is a problem, they fixed it, but there is still no update, so I'm relegated to a useless Macbook in terms of email. I know I should have waited to update, but I felt compelled to be an early adapter. Learned my lesson.

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