Update News

Sonos version 10.5 now available

  • 28 October 2019
  • 62 replies
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62 replies

Userlevel 6
Badge +12

A longer lasting solution would be to release a “controller” box. This hardware could be little more than a Raspberry Pi that offers a browser based user interface, then controls the SONOS system. Keeping this box up to date would be relatively inexpensive for everyone. In the worst case it could be inexpensively replaced. 

Over the long haul the buy once, free support forever business model crashes after the market saturates. This controller box could come with a subscription fee for updates. The fee would give SONOS some incentive to continue supporting the box. New player hardware sales could still be stimulated by system expansion, offering products with compelling new features, and replacing ancient units that failed due to age.

The current system approach is that the players are co-equal and one player becomes the “coordinator” for a L/R pair. Groups also have a coordinator. This works well, but the older players are being challenged due to processor power and memory constraints. This hierarchy could be modified to have the controller box, if present, take over the coordinator functions.

This is half-implemented already via https://github.com/jishi/node-sonos-http-api.   A web-based controller could be developed on a more systematic basis than some existing versions.

My understanding of the SMBv1 issue is that the underlying Linux kernal of the older units must be modified and this cannot be done in the field.

Interesting, TFT…. I’d always assumed that the older units just couldn’t accept later - and presumablly larger - versions of the kernel

Hmm, I’m trying to get used to the new (released in the last few days) Quote editing feature of the Community. I’m not sure how this will work out, but I’m attempting to reply, point by point to a quote that quotes one of my posts.

Good luck to me and the readers.

 

A longer lasting solution would be to release a “controller” box. This hardware could be little more than a Raspberry Pi that offers a browser based user interface, then controls the SONOS system. Keeping this box up to date would be relatively inexpensive for everyone. In the worst case it could be inexpensively replaced. 

Over the long haul the buy once, free support forever business model crashes after the market saturates. This controller box could come with a subscription fee for updates. The fee would give SONOS some incentive to continue supporting the box. New player hardware sales could still be stimulated by system expansion, offering products with compelling new features, and replacing ancient units that failed due to age.

 

 

From what I’ve seen, most/many/some users will not accept having to pay anything additional in order to maintain the system they already bought.  There will be complaints about having to purchase a new box and certainly won’t like a subscription fee.  That fee itself will be somewhat odd, since it won’t be about new services offered, or be required for customers with more current android/iOS devices.

My reply:

Maintenance is an industry issue because new companies offer free updates as a powerful incentive to encourage users to purchase the product. And, it is relatively inexpensive for the developer. Unfortunately, the developer is eventually buried by costs associated with continuing to support the legacy releases.

End of my reply

My other thought on this is that if administration/control is browser based, why not have it be cloud sourced instead of the controller device?  This would be easier to maintain for Sonos and have the benefit of control away from home.  It could be more of a security risk though perhaps and not as responsive.

My reply:

I’m not so keen on Cloud based interaction from performance and personal data security based perspectives.

Further, MOVE or even a whole system could not operate in a remote area with no Cloud access.

End of my reply

 

The current system approach is that the players are co-equal and one player becomes the “coordinator” for a L/R pair. Groups also have a coordinator. This works well, but the older players are being challenged due to processor power and memory constraints. This hierarchy could be modified to have the controller box, if present, take over the coordinator functions.

 

if you went this route, you could make it more appealing to a wider audience if you added additional features.  You could add airplay and aux input.  You add HDMI-ARC so that you could use a stereo pair with a TV possibly….not sure that would work on older devices.  That would make such a device more appealing to a wider audience then just those using older speakers and older operating systems.

My reply:

My original concept was a very simple and inexpensive box that would not need frequent physical updates.

Since the HDMI standard, and other hardware specific features tend to mutate every year or two, the “box” hardware would need to be updated frequently. Of course, this wold be less expensive than updating some or all of the players.

End of my reply

Userlevel 7
Badge +26

We try to keep software compatible for as long as possible, but after the manufacturer stops supporting it with security updates, it becomes hard to keep working with some code. The versions that are moving to limited compatibility in this software update are still going to be able to control what’s playing, so it’s mostly the settings that will be missing but won’t be very different from a day to day use basis. I’ll make sure to pass along your feedback to the team though, they do like hearing what you all have to say.

 

Looking at the latest system requirements, it looks like  you now only fully support Fire OS 6.2 and higher.

So the Fire tablet that I bought only 18 months ago is now unsupported , even though you can still buy this version brand new. I eventually bought the Fire to replace the iPod Touch that you had previously made obsolete.

 

Hey amun, as you know, Fire OS is based on Android builds, and the numbers don’t always match up. You can find a pretty good list here of Fire OS builds and what they’re based on. Fire OS 6.2 is based on Android 7.1 Nougat, but the previous versions are all based on fairly old Android builds. Fire OS 5.7.8.2, which came out in September 2019, was still based on Android 5.1.1 Lollipop. I know that doesn’t make it any easier on you, but there’s always a chance Amazon is able to bring a more modern software build to their hardware that isn’t particularly old.

My understanding of the SMBv1 issue is that the underlying Linux kernal of the older units must be modified and this cannot be done in the field.

Interesting, TFT…. I’d always assumed that the older units just couldn’t accept later - and presumablly larger - versions of the kernel

SONOS staff contacted me and confirmed that newer kernels required for later versions of SMB are too large for the older players.

As someone who is on the "bleeding edge" and not concerned with my devices being deprecated, I am disappointed that this version still does not implement some of the design cues from Android 10 correctly.

The notification is still useless in Dark Mode, and there is no progress bar in the notification, as is the new standard set for music playing apps.

This is the second release of the Sonos app since the wide release of Android 10, and the beta previews have been available to developers for the better part the year. If you are restricting your app to the newer, supported versions of the OS, then please also make sure you fully support them.

When I commented on this issue in the 10.4 post, I was told my "suggestions" would be passed to the team. These are not user suggestions, this is basic OS compatibility.

My understanding of the SMBv1 issue is that the underlying Linux kernal of the older units must be modified and this cannot be done in the field.

Interesting, TFT…. I’d always assumed that the older units just couldn’t accept later - and presumablly larger - versions of the kernel

SONOS staff contacted me and confirmed that newer kernels required for later versions of SMB are too large for the older players.

TFT… Makes sense...

Userlevel 7
Badge +21

Think about a web based controller, hosted on a small computer (think Raspberry Pi size/cost but without all the peripherals the Pi has) and stuck in a Boost sized box. Maybe with a Boost’s functionality too, in the same box.

Sonos could still have fancy dedicated controller apps like they do now, that would still suffer from the device manufacturer’s restrictions. BUT the web controller would work on any HTML 5 browser on any device.

Userlevel 1

Unless you people at Sonos make your own dedicated controller that DOESN'T GO OUT OF DATE, I have bought my last piece of Sonos equipment. I'm beginning to regret the 19 pieces I currently own!

Userlevel 5
Badge +7

So three out of the four devices I use to control Sonos are now out of date.

 

It gets worse!

Sonos could still have fancy dedicated controller apps like they do now, that would still suffer from the device manufacturer’s restrictions.

There are no significant restrictions on PCs - they have more than enough power, disk space and ram to handle anything controller wise - it’s Sonos that chose to disable important parts of it.

Sonos could still have fancy dedicated controller apps like they do now, that would still suffer from the device manufacturer’s restrictions.

There are no significant restrictions on PCs - they have more than enough power, disk space and ram to handle anything controller wise - it’s Sonos that chose to disable important parts of it.

 

But you can’t ignore the reason why administrative features were disabled in the desktop application, that being that people were not using them enough to justify maintaining the features.

 

I don’t know what the right answer is, regarding what features Sonos needs to support on what platforms.  It seems pretty clear though that there are positive and negatives with every answer.  We have complaints that Sonos isn’t supporting older OS enough, while others that they are not properly supporting the features.on the latest OS enough.  While I get the appeal of HTML based interface, whether connected to a box or through a cloud, subscription fee or not,  there will be those that protest having to buy something to maintain what they already have, not to mention whatever the cost may be.

 

 

Userlevel 5
Badge +5

Some interesting thoughts and ideas regarding the ongoing Software Updates which erode the multi platform control use with older hardware.

Essentially, it comes down to 2 choices.

  1. Build out your sonos system with what you need to fill your house with music and control infrastructure that will work for you and LOCK IT DOWN. Block the appropriate ports and bury the DNS requests to update.sonos.com. There was a howto buried in a thread around the time of the CR-100 retirement. You won’t be able to add any components or take advantage of any new features BUT the system will function as is, until stuff dies. You may also lose some music services and some may even say you are risking a network breach, but to this point I have not found this to be a problem for me. Forget about support directly from Sonos other than what is available via forums. 
  1. Keep auto updates on and take them as required. Roll with the punches. Assume that you will be at the mercy of Sonos shareholders who will justify all changes for the greater good of the company and it’s past, present and future owners. Odds are you will be able to use a large majority of the players to play music and control them from most devices made in the last several years.  Every now and then you may need to borrow your grandchilds phone to add a new speaker or music service.

I chose option 1 a year and a half  ago and all is still working perfect.  I did lose my IPad app support (could not restore an 8.4 app after it got hit with an accidental upgrade) but IPad has been replaced by android tablets with sonos version 8.4 apk file, which works fine.

No Regrets. I still love my Sonos system and still using some 13 year old pieces of kit.  Amazing!

BTW, I do check in to see what the latest updates bring and think about what it will cost me to take the upgrade.  ie) lost control etc.

It’s all good!

I chose option 1 a year and a half  ago and all is still working perfect.

Yes, I went option 1 a while ago, and was quite happy with it. I opened it up recently to add a new device, but then immediately locked it down again. Just as well, or my Kindle Fire could have been voided as a full controller.

Personally, I’d recommend anyone who has concerns about Sonos’s strategy to lock down immediately, preferably totally. That’s easy enough for me to do as I don’t use the radio or streaming services any more.​​​​​​​ However, you can still do a partial lock down to reduce most of the risk, whilst keeping these services running. Keeping other people off of your system with later Sonos software seems sensible, too.

Well, this update totally screwed my system, two 1’s as a stereo pair on Wi-Fi. No amount of switching off, resetting, re-loading or router shut down recovers the system. Both controllers, a Galaxy S9 and PC on W10, now go through the update process but fail at the finishing stage or before. I am now at a loss as to a way forward as I can’t roll back.

I think Sonos has overstepped itself and I will be heading to a hard wired speaker system and amplifier coupled to my media streamer. This is a shame as the sound quality has been good but there are too many issues when trying to connect to other multimedia sources like TV’s etc due to no digital sync adjustment and lack of handshaking between these systems. Sonos has been around long enough to address these issues but seems to think it can travel down an Apple-like path and ignore the people who let them exist by buying the product.

Nevertheless, I would still like to be able to use the current system and look forward to some form of resolution.

Nevertheless, I would still like to be able to use the current system and look forward to some form of resolution.

Have you contacted support?

Nevertheless, I would still like to be able to use the current system and look forward to some form of resolution.

Have you contacted support?


Yes, with a diagnostic too. I’m waiting but wanted to see if the forum had a solution too.

The experts here would probably need more info to work on, but TBH only Sonos staff can read the diagnostic info - so it might be best to see what they say first...

My Harmony remote just stopped controlling my Sonos last night.  Wonder if it is related to this upgrade?

My Harmony remote just stopped controlling my Sonos last night.  Wonder if it is related to this upgrade?

Very very unlikely.

Both of my Harmony remotes continue to work without issue. 

An absolute joke.

SONOS set my app to automatically update… they don’t check what release of android I am on and now I can do nothing with my phone.

I have lost connection to one of my Play 1’s which was a pair...and I cannot just switch that off and still listen via the other.

I have lost the ability to play over WiFi so now have to have my Playbar connected via ethernet.

I have the latest PC but Oh no SONOS will not provide an app for PC to do all your setup…you must have a phone or tablet !

 

SONOS help desk suggestion… go and buy a new phone.

 

Can anyone confirm if settings > advanced settings has been removed with this update? I’m setting up a “mixed mode” network, and I don't see these options anymore. Odd! 

Can anyone confirm if settings > advanced settings has been removed with this update? I’m setting up a “mixed mode” network, and I don't see these options anymore. Odd! 

You should find what you need in “Settings/System/Network” 

An absolute joke.

SONOS set my app to automatically update… they don’t check what release of android I am on and now I can do nothing with my phone.

I have lost connection to one of my Play 1’s which was a pair...and I cannot just switch that off and still listen via the other.

I have lost the ability to play over WiFi so now have to have my Playbar connected via ethernet.

I have the latest PC but Oh no SONOS will not provide an app for PC to do all your setup…you must have a phone or tablet !

 

SONOS help desk suggestion… go and buy a new phone.

 

I have the same setup and the same problem and I've been in contact with support now for 8 days! Even though I've detailed the processes I have gone through to try and resolve the issue they keep asking me to do the same things!!! Maybe it's because a different person responds to each of my submissions,  so there is no continuity. They don't seem to understand that nothing has changed in my system from the day it was set up, other than to make their erroneous updates. I'm starting to dislike Sonos and, once the recovery of my two expensive door-stops is achieved, I'll sell up and go back to my good old LS35A's, analogue amp and my media streamer and put up with the wires.

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