Sonos 9.3 Now Available


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As to Sonos having to follow OS updates, this is a flaw in the concept and it seems I 'm not alone. A smartphone is or has become (unfortunalety) a throw-away-and-replace device But it is an isolated device. When required as a remote for a larger, expensive dependent audio system, the design should be such that this system is not affected by change of the remote frontend style or OS. New commands may not be available then, but who needs new commands and options all the time for something as simple as listening to music?
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watt-is wrote:

As to Sonos having to follow OS updates, this is a flaw in the concept and it seems I 'm not alone. A smartphone is or has become (unfortunalety) a throw-away-and-replace device But it is an isolated device. When required as a remote for a larger, expensive dependent audio system, the design should be such that this system is not affected by change of the remote frontend style or OS. New commands may not be available then, but who needs new commands and options all the time for something as simple as listening to music?




This doesn't make any sense

1) Self evidently Sonos would dearly love to not have to deprecate any Operating Systems (Mobile or desktop)
2) How are Sonos to know what an Apple, Windows or Android will be like in 1, 2 or 5 years time? I know of no software that is unfailingly able to operate on all future operating systems.
3) Sonos have no control over 3rd party platform manufactures and whether or not they still support older Operating Systems

I don't disagree, however, that it's a pain in the neck that incremental OS and even new OS cause issues for Sonos and it's users. It's not, however, anything Sonos have control over besides putting their feedback to these companies (Easier with Apple and Microsoft) as they clearly have the ability to ensure that their phones have the ability to support older software (apps) (I'm think a compatibility mode a la Windows)
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Stuart_W, let me explain better: Regardless of Smartphone volatility, the commands going from/to the audio system could be the same for a long time, expanded if required but with the existing ones still working. Old App/OS pairs and brand new ones and all in between could run in parallel. The audio system would not need to know who it is talking to. I mean, what else do I need beyond the functions the old CR100 already had? Nicer HMI with fancy graphics on the latest gadget could be accommodated without making working remotes obsolete.
Plus, what would speak against having a web browser interface? This is how independence is achieved in other industries.
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watt-is wrote:

Stuart_W, let me explain better: Regardless of Smartphone volatility, the commands going from/to the audio system could be the same for a long time, expanded if required but with the existing ones still working. Old App/OS pairs and brand new ones and all in between could run in parallel. The audio system would not need to know who it is talking to. I mean, what else do I need beyond the functions the old CR100 already had? Nicer HMI with fancy graphics on the latest gadget could be accommodated without making working remotes obsolete.
Plus, what would speak against having a web browser interface? This is how independence is achieved in other industries.



The only examples of Sonos removing functionality are the recent update that removed functionality from the desktop controller - this doesn't apper to have been forced on Sonos but rather is a decision they have made based on their own vision of where they see the path of their product. I and many others consider this to be short-sighted.
The only case where features are not available on a mobile controller is when there is a version mis-match between the Sonos units and the app on the controller - this may be as a result of the controller not having been updated or it is a now un-supported OS uon which the latest software cannot be loaded. As I said I'm quite sure Sonos would love to be in a poistion to offer apps that would install and run on all OS but this isn't in their gift or control (people have suggested they keep a database of old controller/Sonos firmware software available but this would seem vanishingly unlikely as if they did this they would need to also support them all).

I do understand what you're saying. The point is that it really isn't in Sonos' control (except the recent desktop functionality grab which as I have said seems to be a mis-step from Sonos)
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watt-is wrote:

As to Sonos having to follow OS updates, this is a flaw in the concept and it seems I 'm not alone. A smartphone is or has become (unfortunalety) a throw-away-and-replace device But it is an isolated device. When required as a remote for a larger, expensive dependent audio system, the design should be such that this system is not affected by change of the remote frontend style or OS. New commands may not be available then, but who needs new commands and options all the time for something as simple as listening to music?



Fundamentally, like most everything else is becoming today, this is a "smart" device, and thus reliant on software, networking, internet connection, etc. And what I think is a very safe assumption - that most people have access to a reasonably modern smartphone.

I see your argument, that it is an expensive product, and you want it to work in perpetuity. But you can buy a car for tens (and hundreds) of thousands of dollars, and all the networking and touchscreen-based functionality will be deprecated. You might be able to use the navigation for as long as it functions, until one day the traffic-guidance service goes off line, and there is a newer music format than mp3/wav/flac/whatever the head unit reads, and Apple Carplay 3.0 isnt backwards compatible, and so on and so forth.

So if you wanted a bit more future proofing, perhaps a traditional, "dumb" audio system is appropriate. But this is basically the way of life.....
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@Kampffechten et al:
I'm not a smartphone junkie. That is I don't glue it to my body. In a many-rooms environment how many smartphones would I have to deposit just for this simple purpose of being used as a remote? And then they don't even have the remote function up and ready instantly. I have/had CRs (100 and 200) sitting wherever a remote was convenient.

Again, my currently biggest problem is the lack of compatibility. I don't ask for new apps running on old OS. I ask for old Apps on old OS (including CRs) still being usable with the audio system, as well as new App/OS pairs in paralllel if desired. As I explained, a reasonable software architecture should make that easy. I really don't see why the commands from/to the audio system should have anything to do with a remote's OS. I also don't see it would create much support complexity. In a support case, just record and show the commands and it can all be App and OS agnostic.

As it is, I'm basically forced to shred CR100, probably soon the CR200s and in any case my older tablets which could have an extended life as remotes because they still work pertectly well, just not with Sonos anymore. In the end, I will have spent more money and time on this stuff than on the audio system itself and on listening to music.
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watt-is wrote:

@Kampffechten et al:
I'm not a smartphone junkie. That is I don't glue it to my body. In a many-rooms environment how many smartphones would I have to deposit just for this simple purpose of being used as a remote? And then they don't even have the remote function up and ready instantly. I have/had CRs (100 and 200) sitting wherever a remote was convenient.



You don't need 1 for remote in every room. You only need 1 phone. The same phone that most people carry on their body, from room to room, house to house. That's the advantage - its leveraging something that most people already have.

You yourself might not be one of those person. And that's perfectly fine. Not every product can be everything to everyone.

Product End of Life is a thing. Especially if the product relies on many constantly evolving 3rd party/external elements. Sonos prominently advertises control from an app, and connecting to many global streaming sources, and wi-fi connectivity. That should inform you as to the essense of the product.

A phono player doesn't do these things. That's not the essence of a phono player. A phono player doesn't care about codecs and DACs and bit-depth and bandwidth. It will play your records until it dies or the record dies. But then again, you wouldn't lodge a complaint against phono manufacturers for it not being able to play a CD, can you?
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Kampffechten wrote:


Especially if the product relies on many constantly evolving 3rd party/external elements. Sonos prominently advertises control from an app, and connecting to many global streaming sources, and wi-fi connectivity. That should inform you as to the essense of the product.



Yes, control, not the content. You don't stream through your smartphone. The audio system connects to what the conrol specifies. This is why a protocol between the remote (control) and the music system could have done the job. Agnostic of who talks on that protocol. Any app, any OS. New functions on the audio system may be used only with newer controls, because only they know new protocol extensions,, but the old ones still would work.
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Since 9.3 I get no sound from Airplay2 stream (https://en.community.sonos.com/music-services-and-sources-228994/no-sound-via-airplay2-since-9-3-update-6819273). Tried factory reset did not help.
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Ryan S wrote:

Many of the hidden web server pages on Sonos devices have been removed over time, this includes the reboot page. I'll let the team know you're missing it, and that you'd like to see something made available in the future to reboot Sonos devices.

Reboots shouldn't be needed with any significant frequency, so if you find that you do have issues that require reboots on the regular, it may be good to contact our support team for assistance.



Sonos! For the love of all that is good... PLEASE - replace the remote reboot functionality that you removed in this release. You say this should not be needed. However, a few times each week I must power cycle the players to get them to show up again as Spotify Connect devices. Once I do, the players magically appear in Spotify, and all is good again. My players are in strategic places, so unplugging is NOT easy. If I do unplug to recycle, the Spotify Connect devices come back again. BUT this is a huge hassle, and something that I always handled via your reboot page (as directed by Sonos in old posts). Reboot always fixed this issue, in about 10 seconds.

Please! I will be willing to send gift cards or other bribes in return.

Thanks!
ASoft wrote:

Ryan S wrote:

Many of the hidden web server pages on Sonos devices have been removed over time, this includes the reboot page. I'll let the team know you're missing it, and that you'd like to see something made available in the future to reboot Sonos devices.

Reboots shouldn't be needed with any significant frequency, so if you find that you do have issues that require reboots on the regular, it may be good to contact our support team for assistance.



Sonos! For the love of all that is good... PLEASE - replace the remote reboot functionality that you removed in this release. You say this should not be needed. However, a few times each week I must power cycle the players to get them to show up again as Spotify Connect devices. Once I do, the players magically appear in Spotify, and all is good again. My players are in strategic places, so unplugging is NOT easy. If I do unplug to recycle, the Spotify Connect devices come back again. BUT this is a huge hassle, and something that I always handled via your reboot page (as directed by Sonos in old posts). Reboot always fixed this issue, in about 10 seconds.

Please! I will be willing to send gift cards or other bribes in return.

Thanks!

Have you ever tried adding you Sonos Speakers to your routers DHCP Server Reservation Table so that your Sonos devices always get allocated their original/same IP address every time they, or your system, are updated/rebooted?

It’s also a good thing to run your system in the 'exclusive' SonosNet Mesh mode with one Sonos device cabled to your network and operating on a different 2.4ghz non-overlapping channel to your router, with the WiFi credentials removed from the Sonos App Advanced Settings.

Perhaps try those things and then send me a gift card/bribe if it does work for you and resolves all your drop-out issues.

I wait in anticipation to hear the outcome of that 'well talked about' advice that’s often mentioned here in the community...🥺 ha ha
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Ken_Griffiths wrote:

ASoft wrote:

Ryan S wrote:

Many of the hidden web server pages on Sonos devices have been removed over time, this includes the reboot page. I'll let the team know you're missing it, and that you'd like to see something made available in the future to reboot Sonos devices.

Reboots shouldn't be needed with any significant frequency, so if you find that you do have issues that require reboots on the regular, it may be good to contact our support team for assistance.



Sonos! For the love of all that is good... PLEASE - replace the remote reboot functionality that you removed in this release. You say this should not be needed. However, a few times each week I must power cycle the players to get them to show up again as Spotify Connect devices. Once I do, the players magically appear in Spotify, and all is good again. My players are in strategic places, so unplugging is NOT easy. If I do unplug to recycle, the Spotify Connect devices come back again. BUT this is a huge hassle, and something that I always handled via your reboot page (as directed by Sonos in old posts). Reboot always fixed this issue, in about 10 seconds.

Please! I will be willing to send gift cards or other bribes in return.

Thanks!

Have you ever tried adding you Sonos Speakers to your routers DHCP Server Reservation Table so that your Sonos devices always get allocated their original/same IP address every time they, or your system, are updated/rebooted?

It’s also a good thing to run your system in the 'exclusive' SonosNet Mesh mode with one Sonos device cabled to your network and operating on a different 2.4ghz non-overlapping channel to your router, with the WiFi credentials removed from the Sonos App Advanced Settings.

Perhaps try those things and then send me a gift card/bribe if it does work for you and resolves all your drop-out issues.

I wait in anticipation to hear the outcome of that 'well talked about' advice that’s often mentioned here in the community...🥺 ha ha



Ha. Yes, I have tried your advice you frequently posted elsewhere. I have have always had reserved static IP addresses. I am not able to directly cable any player device in my current configuration. My Wifi inspector shows no overlapping 2.4 GHz channels with my current router channel setting. The disappearing Spotify connect devices appear rather random.

Sorry - No gift cards for you this time. :cool:
ASoft wrote:

Ha. Yes, I have tried your advice you frequently posted elsewhere. I have have always had reserved static IP addresses. I am not able to directly cable any player device in my current configuration. My Wifi inspector shows no overlapping 2.4 GHz channels with my current router channel setting. The disappearing Spotify connect devices appear rather random.

Sorry - No gift cards for you this time. :cool:

Its a pity you are unable to cable a Sonos device to run all your Sonos speakers 'exclusively' on the in-built STP wireless signal.. The only other thing I can suggest is to look at the Sonos Matrix Table to see if it shows any 'red' interference areas around each of your Sonos devices themselves... try another another wifi channel, if you discover such device interference.

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