End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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  • Retired Sonos Staff
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We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos


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I think it would be useful for those of us looking for real information about the way forward for our systems, if other customers wouldn’t clog this thread up with repeated spamming of requests for huge discounts?

I quite agree. Forget about upgrading lets keep what we have working (as is does). Even huge discounts mean we all have to give Sonos MORE money to keep what we already have. And in 5 years you’ll be forced to do the same, and 5 years after that!

Lets put pressure on them to work a long term solution such as a web based controller - with an API so others can create apps that function on future devices - so legacy systems can continue to work for many years until the hardware fails.

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It’s been said 70% might ease things, NO IT WONT this was sold as a hi fi system so should last until it dies, not because of updates and features I don’t want

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IMO, SONOS needs to go back to basics to understand what they are selling and why the devices are purchased. In summary, the products are amplifiers and speakers that people are buying to render sound in their property.

If, after investing thousands to have a ‘whole home system’, who wants to be told X years down the line that because one of their amplifiers has failed they are now having to split their ‘whole home system’ into separate zones – the exact opposite to what the system was sold as being capable of and intended to do. It does not take much imagination to see that over time, you end up with a very expensive individual zone (aka room) solution as/when separate components fail and need replacing.

The whole issue, again IMO, revolves around the forced software upgrades that caused a similar, though smaller scale furore (though a lot of post pages) when SONOS decided to brick perfectly good controllers (the CR100s) a while ago – at that time it was up to individuals to find way to retain the devices if they wanted. At least there appears to have been some learning from that debacle.

The way the system is being developed is leading to incredible waste. I understand the units cannot be sold on if the upgrade option is taken because they are ‘bricked’ by SONOS software turning them into unnecessary landfill – the least green option I can think of.

You do not have to be a genius to see that creating a system where every device within the system constantly needs updating to match all the rest is a flawed solution. The primarily purpose of these devices is to deliver sound to a room. I still use speakers and amplifiers that are over 30 years old and they still perform fine – in fact they form part of my SONOS system via ZP80s. I don’t believe users expect things such as speakers and amplifiers to have a short life span.

Surely it would be better to keep the processing at amplifier/speaker level thin (simple) and use a ‘SONOS Hub’ type solution whereby the main processing and upgrades can be centrallised. A ‘SONOS’ protocol could be used to communicate between all the devices. Any external protocol changes would then impact the interface device - the hub, rather than every device in the system.

If significant changes happen in the market place where the communication between the ‘hub’ and the speakers/amplifiers change (voice-controlled speakers maybe), then a new ‘hub’ could provide the extra processing whilst still retaining communication with the legacy products – by implication it would be a prerequisite to an upgrade but that looks a lot more palatable IMO.

SONOS was sold as a whole home solution that could deliver the same or different sound to every room in which it was installed. It was not sold on the basis that it would be less than that over time, unless you ripped out all the old kit and replaced it with new. Come on SONOS, engineer a solution that delivers what you promised without the compromises you are now foisting on your customers, not to mention your complete disregard for green issues we are facing.

 

 

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

Like many others I have spent thousands on a Sonos system that was supposed to grow with my needs. My reward for loyalty? Spend even more thousands to update my system and have salt rubbed into the wounds by not only offering a patheic discount on an already expensive item, but to have my ‘out of date’ equipment taken away and rendered useless. Double whammy. I get the honour of paying lots for my equipment to become obsolete.

If the last pragraph of the CEO’s staement is true, then Sonos need to look hard at this as they would not exist without loyal customers. A like for like swap programme would be better.Someone in the PR department needs to look hard at these words and realise that putting out corporate statements that they think is the right hting to do, is not the same as actually doing something to apologise for this giant own goal. Give your so called loyal customers replacement products for our out of date equipment, but don’t insult them by charging them for your shortcomings.

I love Sonos, and have recommended them to friends and family but action like this makes you wonder why I bother and will warn anyone against their products now. The ball is in Sonos’ court. Backup your words wth actual deeds and get your customers back on side if you want a future growing business. Loyalty works both ways.

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Having read the latest “clarification” and apology, I am even more convinced that I will never buy another Sonos product ever!

All we have is confirmation that the bricking is going ahead combined with platitudes that amount to “sorry if that wasn’t clear enough in the previous communications”.

Only a fool would buy Sonos kit now or upgrade their Sonos system - how long before your next “investment” becomes a brick?

I don’t buy the argument that hardware is the issue here, streaming sound is inherently easy, straightforward and low on hardware\software requirements.

The issue seems to be poor software design\architecture, combined with a total lack of desire on the part of Sonos to just make their system work. It’s just software and not very complicated software at that.

To break the system by preventing in-sync broadcast sound across old and newer speakers on the same network, is to break the whole raison d'être for Sonos - without this Sonos is not Sonos.

To break newer speakers by not providing updates because you use older speakers on your network is frankly ludicrous, illogical and unforgivable.

To break older speakers by not providing updates to maintain API’s for streaming is disgusting - these are not cheap disposable items. We expect speakers to last, and the environmental impact of making perfectly good speakers defunct should not be overlooked.

To deliberately brick speakers in return for a discount against new speakers is shameful and the environmental damage caused by this deliberate throwing away and destruction of working speakers should be an object lesson in how not to do things for other companies.

On so many levels Sonos is letting itself, its customers and the environment down.

It is clear this was planned\thought about for sometime from the reports to investors, and its clear there is no change of heart and that the plan will continue.

 

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I think it would be useful for those of us looking for real information about the way forward for our systems, if other customers wouldn’t clog this thread up with repeated spamming of requests for huge discounts?

The way this consumer anger is going, Sonos might not get an opportunity to sell any fresh & exciting products if the brand continues to self-devalue in the way it has in the last 72 hours.

It’s a situation of Sonos’ own making. 

Some people have spent thousands

What do you expect people to do?

Roll over so customers can go through the same rinse & repeat in another 5 Years time (or less), when it’s decreed expensive equipment is outdated & ‘legacy’?

There is no real information, because Sonos hasn’t decided on the information, or more likely it has but is keeping it’s customers in the dark as it’s going to cost them.

That’s the issue.

I don’t think at any point I’ve said to “roll over”, and I think your reply here is illustrative of the hysteria that some customers have whipped themselves up into in how you’ve taken what I wrote and completely blown it out of proportion, but spamming this thread with massive images and repeated requests for discounts when what customers more generally need is clarification and information on what they are doing about split systems, isn’t helping other customers.

I don’t think that it is hysteria when I have to pay over £700 to keep my system up-to-date with nothing new to show for it. Next it is Play 1 and Play 3 Gen1 that is going to be another £500 from my pocket to keep a system working! It is the reality nothing else and it is not acceptable!

Userlevel 2

This can’t end well. If/when Sonos goes under what happens with all our products, legacy and new. Management will move on leaving chaos behind. Will any of the bigger players find anything to pick over amongst the rubble. As the main thing was customer brand loyalty rather than innovative technology, I suspect not.

Userlevel 1

This whole thing is saddening to me on many levels.  My 5 zone/9 speaker/13 device setup has been growing slowly for a decade.  it is a part of my daily routine, is integrated into my home automation controller/security system, and is always playing something streaming when we’re home.

 

For years I have evangelized for the brand.  When conversations with friends come up about home audio/hi-fi, i have told stories of how great my sonos system is and that i’d never consider other options.  Sonos is somewhat of a hard sell (for the price) unless and until you can use it in your home.  I’m confident i’ve helped to sell many, many products for them.  Sonos has been a product I have loved to talk about with people.

 

I received the email about 5 of my devices.  I’ve shared this email with several friends expressing my concern.  There is NO WAY i would recommend Sonos to friends, and I will definitely not purchase any more products in the current environment.  

 

I’ll keep what I’ve invested in for now, will not add to it, and will wait and see what happens.  but i’m extremely disappointed.  And I’m still not totally clear if my hybrid/legacy setup will continue to stream from siriusXM/tunein in the future.  

 

 

 

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I see that Patrick Spence had a long career with RIM (Blackberry) we all know how that turned out and SONOS is heading down that same road. The similarities are uncanny. Hmmmm?

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Well the CEO"s message is at least recognition that they've fouled up, but only contains small signs of improvement. The test will be what you actually deliver. Your reputation, once so good,  a company that I happily recommend to many others (very rare for me), hangs in the balance. 

And literally thousands of people won't be buying your products until you sort this. That's a lot of deferred turnover, so I'd advise moving very quickly. 

Still staggering that a CEO didn't see this kind of reaction coming. Blindingly obvious.

 

 

Userlevel 5
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Could someone please add the CEO’s email address again - I know it’s in here somewhere!

 

Found it here - patrick.spence@sonos.com

This is the END!

I have personally bought 5 Sonos devices and suggested to so many friends, that rely on my tech “expertise” to buy there own gadget, that I cannot even count.

This absurd decision may reward you now but it will be a huge damage to your company in the long term. 

Well done SONOS!

 

PS 

Amazon is selling your legacy product in the SONOS page in this very moment:

https://www.amazon.it/Sonos-Wireless-Amplificatori-Controllabile-Smartphone/dp/B001DHKUEK?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

 

 

Userlevel 5
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I think it would be useful for those of us looking for real information about the way forward for our systems, if other customers wouldn’t clog this thread up with repeated spamming of requests for huge discounts?

The way this consumer anger is going, Sonos might not get an opportunity to sell any fresh & exciting products if the brand continues to self-devalue in the way it has in the last 72 hours.

It’s a situation of Sonos’ own making. 

Some people have spent thousands

What do you expect people to do?

Roll over so customers can go through the same rinse & repeat in another 5 Years time (or less), when it’s decreed expensive equipment is outdated & ‘legacy’?

There is no real information, because Sonos hasn’t decided on the information, or more likely it has but is keeping it’s customers in the dark as it’s going to cost them.

That’s the issue.

I don’t think at any point I’ve said to “roll over”, and I think your reply here is illustrative of the hysteria that some customers have whipped themselves up into in how you’ve taken what I wrote and completely blown it out of proportion, but spamming this thread with massive images and repeated requests for discounts when what customers more generally need is clarification and information on what they are doing about split systems, isn’t helping other customers.

I don’t think that it is hysteria when I have to pay over £700 to keep my system up-to-date with nothing new to show for it. Next it is Play 1 and Play 3 Gen1 that is going to be another £500 from my pocket to keep a system working! It is the reality nothing else and it is not acceptable!

 

Niaccurshi: You just dont get it. So sad.

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Dial in to the Sonos earnings call.  There is a Q&A session and callers and put questions directly to the CEO.    Everyone please dial in!  (and please repost this info - I think SONOS is deleting it when I post it here…. and I’m not on twitter or facebook so i can’t)

Feb. 5 at  5:00 p.m. Eastern Time 

calling from inside US  (833) 236-2748, with conference ID 9666837. 

calling from outside US  (647) 689-4173, with the same conference ID.

This is so sad.

I'm still using the sweet Bose Acoustimass III speakers I bought 25 years ago and they sound great hooked up to a Connect:Amp. Well at least the speakers still work great today, the Amp is now headed towards obsolesence.

Those 70 year old McIntosh tube amps still work great too, and they keep adding new brand advocates to their stable.

Ever since seeing the first Sonos at CES 15 years ago, I have spent more than $5k on Sonos gear (probably close to $10k), including sub-woofers, sound bars, amps, speakers, etc. etc.  And now most of it is likely to become completely worthless. I've been a huge brand advocate for you guys, leading to many, many more sales - but no more. This is not how you treat your longest and best customers. 

Even just putting the products into a non-supported zombie mode won’t cut it.  

I will no longer recommend your products.

It was a great run, but I have had enough.

This is going to be a great marketing case study soon about how a once promising company ticked off their most dedicated customers and either rapidly spiraled down to irrelevance, or did the right thing and rolled back this crazy action. Let's see which way it goes.

 

jim

 

Can’t agree more. I was distraught when Sonos failed to support the lovely controllers - ok an App is fine but takes away from the aesthetics. I have spent thousands on Sonos products and now I am lumbered with ‘legacy products’ How will separate systems actually work? I have amps connected to Bose speakers and my CD player is connected via Connect. I have a Play 5, I have bridges. I stream music but I use my own library etc etc etc. How the hell do I move forward. This is a frankly unacceptable situation from what I thought was a top class company. I was thinking about adding Move, Sub and more speakers but now NO! I have also introduced many friends to Sonos. I and many, many others have been let down - big time. 30% discount for recycling a perfectly good system!

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I already ordered a completely new system from Teufel/Raumfeld.

Frank  

 

Didn’t know that brand but looks attractive - thanks for the hint!

Message to CEO - you have lost your way.  This company was built on quality, open platform and longevity.  Next move Speaker Subscription?.?  Get your head out of silicon valley BS and get back to basics and build quality enduring products and increase your sales via new product innovation not forced obsolescence.

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You really didn’t think about this Legacy announcement SONOS - it’s clear that your customer relationship, brand, & marketing teams were obviously not consulted prior to the announcement. One word... ‘SUICIDAL’. To go from being a truly ‘loved brand’ to a hated one in the matter of days is criminal. Why you didn’t offer a much better deal (70%?) to trade-in I don’t know? Congratulations SONOS…very well done.

Userlevel 7
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Could someone please add the CEO’s email address again - I know it’s in here somewhere!

This is the email address patrick.spence@sonos.com

Userlevel 4
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Message to CEO - you have lost your way.  This company was built on quality, open platform and longevity.  Next move Speaker Subscription?.?  Get your head out of silicon valley BS and get back to basics and build quality enduring products and increase your sales via new product innovation not forced obsolescence.

This is why it's such a shame, they've completely U-turned on a lot of values that once made them a great company. Now loyal customers will only see a PR machine with no credibility or consistency. 

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I already ordered a completely new system from Teufel/Raumfeld.

Frank  

 

Didn’t know that brand but looks attractive - thanks for the hint!

Very nice! Not available in North America sadly? SONOS are really being left behind. 
I love it.

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 30% OFFER NEEDS TO BE AMENDED TO 70%  - This is simple, and I strongly believe this is the only way SONOS can even attempt to rescue this situation and it’s brand. 

Shame on you Sonos, I’ve had my device for over 10 yrs, I enjoy it with my family.  It seems you don’t give a damn about your customers, it’s all about making the most money.  Typical greedy company, it’s disgusting, I will never buy another Sonos product again.  You lost a lot of good customers, from what I’ve been reading.  Hope it was worth it.

                         Sign:  Very disappointed customer

    

This is my first post. I just wanted to register my disbelief over what SONOS have done. Its clear that most of the postings here are made by people who really know and understand the technology but its really frightening when like me you don't. I just purchased £2500 worth of SONOS kit and had it fitted by the dealer I bought it from. I am not naïve enough not to understand the concept of software updates but it the relatively young age of these products that is causing me to worry. On a practical note I assume I will need to replace my Play 3 speakers with Play 5 as it looks to me as if play 3 is no longer available. At £500 each 30% discount is not going to cut it.

This is simply a corporate mistake where manufacturing costs have been kept to a minimum and now customers are expected to cover the resulting costs by purchasing new equipment. I estimate that the works cost for a £500 retail price product would be ££125, lets say £150 to be sure. The new discounted price to me will be £350 a profit of £225. Why SONOS do you not work on a works cost plus 10% You will benefit from increased manufacturing volume and not take your customers to be complete mugs which is just how I feel. the mistake of course was purchasing SONOS in the first place and that is my responsibility. I am attracted to top end brands and have never been let down by them…..until now.

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I don’t think that it is hysteria when I have to pay over £700 to keep my system up-to-date with nothing new to show for it. Next it is Play 1 and Play 3 Gen1 that is going to be another £500 from my pocket to keep a system working! It is the reality nothing else and it is not acceptable!

 

Niaccurshi: You just dont get it. So sad.

I’m in exactly the same position as the person you’ve quoted, in fact by the sounds of it even more likely to be struck by future legacy product announcements. But I also understand that the hardware is fine, and that as long as there is a solution to allow streaming of music across from modern systems to legacy systems, that this will mean I won’t have to upgrade or get rid of any of my existing products. That’s the most important news we can get, not some fantastical “70% discount” demands.