End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
Ryan S
Userlevel 7
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  • Ryan S
  • Retired Sonos Staff
  • 12372 replies

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

 

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

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4256 replies

L
Userlevel 5
Badge +1

 

this is precisely the actions we can and should take…. i.e spread it wider than this forum.

 

I think there are enough of us to leave 1 star reviews that the average product ratings will drop to 1 or 2 on major product review sites. They have significant impact on people’s buying habits and we should warn others before they potentially part with several thousand or hundreds of pounds/dollars for a system that will be knackered in a few years.

UKUser can I ask on which website this screen shot is from so I can register and contribute to Sonos’ average product rating?

Why don't Sonos commit to letting me play Spotify and some radio through my existing system? I know it can be done and dont give me the bumfff about memory, I have a degree in electronics and life in software dev. I (like many others here) know that there are easy solutions available to continue making your products WORK…. I am not talking about new features, I dont give a toss about new features… I can live without them, I am just talking about maintaining a few basic features. WHY are you trashing my £2k system?

 

These are the recent ratings for the Android Sonos App

 

Presumably there is a similar facility for the iPhone App

 

There is also a head of steam building up on the Trustpilot site - 11 pages of 1 star reviews and counting:

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com

Thanks, I will reg and add to trustpilot…. 

In return I have started on whathifi (many more to follow) perhaps you could leave a review there?. 

Here is the link https://forums.whathifi.com/threads/sonos-everything-you-need-to-know.111173/

 

R
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

BTW the Sonos Share Price graphs people have been posting are a little misleading…
Also their lawsuit against Google (which IMHO seems a reach) will be a significant factor in the price…
Finally lets not wish them that much ill, if they go all the music players go with them, and I already have two Internet devices that are just paperweights due to the company going bust (it was bought, but the purchaser ditched support for the old devices and offered a 25% discount on a new, basically identical, model - maybe with more memory IIRC)…
Not that I’m less than extremely annoyed that I have to go legacy (5 of 7 devices) and Spotify plus Internet radio might stop working sometime...

 


You’re completely right. My main concern about this is the short notice to replace devices, but my wider concern is the damage to the Company from this - or possibly how desperate they are to even try this at such short notice - means they in serious difficulty. Its academic how long Sonos would like to support differently aged devices if they are not here to support any devices new or old.
 

I do wonder how many supposed Sonos-killers who have come and gone over the years left their customers in the same mess after months rather than years. 

F
Userlevel 3
Badge

 

I have read with considerable disappointment that SONOS will no longer provide updates for certain equipment. I want to advise SONOS management and community at large how disappointing this announcement is.

I have been a very loyal SONOS customer for at least 8 years and have purchased:

2 SONOS one’s

2 SONOS 5’s 1 generation

2 SONOS 5”s 2 generation

2 SONOS Sound Bars…

1 SONOS Base Unit

Also have purchased three individual sets of SONOS one’s for individual members of my family as gifts.

As you can see I have made a considerable investment in both the company and its equipment.

I find it interesting and disappointing that this announcement happens to coincide with the fact that SONOS is now a publicly traded company on Wall Street. Since SONOS has gone public its share price and not increased and its sales volume has not increased as Wall Street had hoped. Now the NEW strategy will be for SONOS management to create incentives for existing customers to purchase more "NEW" units…..THEREFORE INCREASE SALES VOLUME!  Before SONOS went “PUBLIC” it had an outstanding reputation for quality. Now it looks like GREED MANAGEMENT has taken control of the company…..

II will no longer invest my money in products with a company management that maintains this type of business agenda.

FJM

 

 

 

R
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

As with others, I am appalled at this decision and the total contempt shown for customers. 

 

I too have spent thousands of pounds on Sonos equipment in the not distant past and three of my 6 products are now apparently legacy. 

 

The thing I’m finding most infuriating is this badge of “being able to support new functionality” and associating processing power etc. 

 

Over the last two years we have seen an enormous downgrade in “functionality” from iPhone lock screen controls to playing from iPhone at all. Three years ago my system did more than it can do now in terms of usable functionality and ultimately those things were the reason for purchase for me. So it doesn’t stack up that new functionality requires greater processing power, keep it simple and working how it was. It used to be such a beautiful, easy system. 

 

I will never buy again if this decision isn’t reversed. What other options are there from someone hacking the software to a class action law suit on fair use? Surely there are enough of us unhappy with this that we cannot let it happen? 

 

What else can we do to damage their brand in the meantime? Don’t let this fade into memory - get on every site possible and give a 0 star review. Tell everyone you know not to buy Sonos. Collectively we can destroy them if they treat us like this. 
 

disgusting company

A

 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

 

Very disgruntled customer here, but taking a deep breath having just read the above…….and now looking for some clarity…….

Is this statement above a response to the global angst caused by the legacy announcement 2 days ago, or was this in the master EOL plan?  Either way, I’d wager waiting until May to share the detail with us (customers) might be seen as another crass communication clanger from Sonos.  If the above statement is to be believed, the key user focused questions that need answered quickly are:

  1. Will we be able to group speakers from the legacy environment with those in the non-legacy environment?
  2. Will we be able to run these two environments from one app, or will it be 2 apps
  3. Will we need to purchase any additional Sonos products to make the two-environment model work in our homes

I’m not sure anyone is going to be buying Sonos until you can answer these questions and we get some clarity on the full user/owner impact of your embryonic legacy strategy 

 

 

M

Sonos

 

I have spent £1,250+ on Sonos products over the years. And have been largely happy with them. I opted to buy a high quality system that would last.

 

Your decision to withdraw software updates for my products highlights the contempt you have for me as a loyal customer. As a tech analyst I am very familiar with both the improvements in tech over the last decade and the cost implications of supporting older products.  this decision has everything to do with reducing costs and trying to boost sales via replacement to meet quarterly numbers. In an age where we need to reduce consumption of materials, the idea that these products could be legacy after five years is offensive.

 

If you go ahead with this decision I will never purchase another product.

dan


Agree with you Dan. I won’t buy Sonus again. This is shocking.

T
Badge +2

 

really melodrama!!! I brought into sonos that I could expand the system, nowhere did it say in the small print that a minimum EOL of 5 years would apply. My 10 year iPhone although no longer supported still works, my windows 7 computer still works. A year after may will my sonos work as now NO I think not

 

Yes, this is the real computer world model of systems.  I have a 2012 Mac mini running an obsolete MacOS so that I can run Win7 in it.  It plays fine with my 2019 MacBook.  The key is in the interfaces.

 

As an aside, why can’t Sonos design an add-on box that sits behind the now-obsoleted components and provides a supported interface to newer services ?  I’d pay for that if reasonable.  Maybe the interconnection could be the Line-In or similar.

J
Userlevel 2
Badge

Best line I read today: Sonos is an expensive speaker rental company. 
 

People seem to compare this equipment to iPhones or computers that perform so many functions. Sonos equipment performs one thing: stream music over a network. Yes, our equipment should last as long as any higher end audio components. This is clearly a business model shift - rental company. 

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +1

Every room in my house I walk into where I have a Sonos and I see it, it makes me so angry. I don’t want to use it or listen to it anymore. Legacy or modern it makes me angry I have bought into this flawed and fragile ecosystem where 1 legacy device can mess up the updates of my modern devices! Just make them interoperable!

M
Badge

This is such a stupid move by Sonos. It’s sooo stupid to destroy the brand like this. These guys running the place can not be that ignorant, therefore, I’m thinking there is more to this story than is being told.

There is NO WAY corporate did not know this would destroy the brand. So why are they doing it? The truth will eventually come out.

The toothpaste is out of the tube, SONOS as a brand is now worthless. You can’t undo this breach of trust.

I wonder what the communications are to major shareholders… they must be livid as well.

Maybe a mail clerk put this out as a joke. lol

S

I understand that in a hardware based business to stay relevant that upgrades are needed from a revenue stand point all the way to a support model. But offering a menial discount of 30% to paying customers that have invested time and money into your product and community is a slap to the face. 

 

You want to hold on to your user base so they can speak to their friends and family on how much they enjoy their system- the majority of Sonos users I know were introduced this way to the ecosystem. Offer a bigger discount for products that you own and need to upgrade- 50% would make sense to make sure you hold on to your base while coming clean on the business side. 

 

A misstep by Sonos but if they believe in the community of listeners they will listen to us here. GIVE A BIGGER DISCOUNT! 

D
Userlevel 7
Badge +1

I wonder how much trade-up discount Ryan can get for his legacy devices?

 

A

Interesting that with all the furore ongoing there’s no hint of crisis management PR getting involved. Leaves the impression that this reaction has been factored in and doesn’t require any additional handling.

It seems clear from the SEC filing that they were expecting considerable flak about this announcement, and have factored it in to their business plan. So I think that it’s just a case of  them being fully prepared to lose a few legacy customers - who are no longer buying much anyway….

D

I’m in full agreement with the non-hyperbolic statements … like many, I’ve spent many 000s equipping myself (and foolishly patting myself on the back for) buying various Sonos equipment, but this “solution” and handling is what’s appalling, moreso then the fact that tech advances and old gear can’t always support new advances.  

Of course tech advances and not all devices can support new functionality.  I’m 100% fine with that -- in fact, I much preferred my sonos interface in 2013 that perfectly let me play music across the house and directly from my apple devices/on my lock screen… features I’ve sadly lost.

Dear Sonos - simple solution - have two “controllers” - 1 basic that supports both old+new ecosystem (with a handful of the key streaming apps only such as Spotify).  2. have the “advanced” model with voice control, etc., etc.  Can you imagine?  

Oh, and perhaps give 50% off on products to people who are upgrading more than 3 or 4 products at once (i.e., your most loyal customers).

Oh well Sonos - you had a good thing going and you were the best at what you did for a long time … so was Blackberry.  Oh well, I guess I shall just stick to Airplay 2 compatible gear and move on with my life.

 

T
Userlevel 3

Like many others 4 of my 7 Sonos players are now “Legacy”, 2 Connects and 2 Play 5’s.

Can anyone else see the irony though?

Of the 2 Connects - 1 is connected to a 25+ year old Arcam amplifier and 40 year old Kef speakers, the other to a similar aged amplifier and 25 year old speakers.  All of which work as good as new - who’d have thought the weakest link in the chain would be the newest?

Having been a Sonos evangelist and encouraged family, friends and work colleagues to buy it I’m now embarrassed and ashamed to have done so.  They’ll never get another penny from me and if there is any justice this will turn out to be their Gerald Ratner moment!

 

We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer. 

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features. 

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

 

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features. 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.
 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Ryan/Sonos Leadership,

You must now realise that this cynical sales ploy - thinly disguised as technological necessity - has seriously backfired.  Indeed, as others have shown in their posts, you formally recognised the risks before the fact and chose to implement irrespective.

You will also appreciate just how many users recommended your product to others and that this ‘word of mouth’ recommendation is THE best and cheapest marketing you could possibly wish for.

At a stroke you are destroying reputation, brand loyalty and future sales.  Why?

We know that the full breadth of your proposed action is not a necessity but is motivated by revenue targets.  We also get that you’re a listed company (thanks to your customers) and that analysts expect growth however; take your customers for granted and treat them like fools at your peril.  You are no longer the only game in town.

There is a small window of opportunity to retract this proposal and replace with something more palatable and in so doing, recover the goodwill of those without whom you are quite literally, nothing.  Think hard on this, but not for too long.

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +5

Interesting that with all the furore ongoing there’s no hint of crisis management PR getting involved. Leaves the impression that this reaction has been factored in and doesn’t require any additional handling.

It seems clear from the SEC filing that they were expecting considerable flak about this announcement, and have factored it in to their business plan. So I think that it’s just a case of  them being fully prepared to lose a few legacy customers - who are no longer buying much anyway….


it may have been factored in but I’m fairly sure not at this level, and now the media outlets are starting to show interest this is rather embarrassing for sonos

J
Userlevel 5
Badge +9

Owner of over 20 Sonos products.

Ill give another view of this debacle since everyone else has pretty much detailed most of it.

 

Over the last 5 years I have lost the following features with new updates

PC software to set Sonos Settings (One speaker is at an isolated site with no wifi, hence no android connection)

Web based info queries without adding to app

Nice wireless charging tablets to use as interfaces now told android OS not supported.

Direct Android connection to speaker not wifi (Poolhouse doesn't have good wifi but does have good SonosNet connection) now my Android tablet at location needs to find wifi, just have to walk back towards house how convenient.

Pandora sort by date??? I know its their issue but again with all the “new” updates I lose functionality

 

Features would love to see added in the new updates never happening

Advanced grouping (with 20 speakers a useful tool)

Trueplay tuning (Android house)

New option for media library (65K limit) yes I use Plex some but response isn't great when you have lots of albums, local folder from Sonos media library helps because I can separate by folders to make filtering easier)

Home Theatre Audio, too many to even list.

SMBv2

Multiple Amp station hardware (instead of four/eight in a whole house installation) one nice unit combined would be a winner.

 

With all the “new” updates I really haven't gotten any new features that I need or desire. I have lost quite a few of what made Sonos awesome!

 

Sonos you are chasing the new market for customers that buy one maybe two products. Competing with Amazon, Google, and Apple which have much higher volumes and can beat you at that game. Younger customers that only care about a cheap price and not quality.

All the while angering customers who invest in you as an eco system. I feel like you are the best in class for that. Still are. Problem is you are chasing a market where you wont win and killing the market where you did. Where you have name brand reputation.

In a world where people “like” a speaker the size of bagel, Bluetooth connection is deemed good enough, talking to your speaker is more important than the sound, and price is a factor you aren't on the right track.

 

Dont lose your multi device customers!

 

 

Playbar(2) Sub(1) Play:5(2) Play:3(6) Play:1(5) Connect:AMP(3) Sonos:AMP(5) Move(1)
J
Userlevel 5
Badge +4

I’m already resigned to running 2 separate systems with 2 separate routers (one using 4G), but maybe I’ll have to be running a third soon!

When the CR100s got bricked I preserved mine and have the bulk of my system running on v8.4 and making sure this doesn’t update.  My most recent acquisitions (incl a SYMFONISK) connect normally, updating as and when required.

 

Will I still have to ringfence my 8.4 system after May or will I have to further divide it into legacy and hybrid units, putting those hybrid units on yet another router regardless of whether they update from v8.4 to latest version?

So pleased I only bought discounted SYMFONISK lately but maybe IKEA are happy with more "disposable” fashion products that maybe “modern”now but won’t be for as long as their customers think.

I wanted a Move but my wife told me she’d leave me if I bought any more Sonos.  Thank-you Sonos - you’ve just saved my marriage (and she loves my Bluesound Vault 2)!:laughing:

18 zones, 29 devices and counting
R

Like everyone else, I am angry at having spent over £1750 on products that seemingly won't survive more than ten years. I have guitar amps that are three times as old and work perfectly, albeit with small maintenance costs.

 

The time is ripe for Google to bring back the Chromecast audio. I will certainly be looking at that route in the future. With the amount I spent on sonos, I could have bought decent 'dumb' gear and used cheaper network gear to provide the 'smart' connectivity. I will never buy sonos gear again.

P
Userlevel 3
Badge

Interesting that with all the furore ongoing there’s no hint of crisis management PR getting involved. Leaves the impression that this reaction has been factored in and doesn’t require any additional handling.

It seems clear from the SEC filing that they were expecting considerable flak about this announcement, and have factored it in to their business plan. So I think that it’s just a case of  them being fully prepared to lose a few legacy customers - who are no longer buying much anyway….


I think you’re right.  They made this disclosure knowing full well that this was coming, and my guess is that they don’t care.  For all we are complaining, I expect nothing to be done.  Sadly, on Wall Street, the only thing that matters is the bottom line.  Customers - they can get those from other places.

O
Userlevel 3
Badge

 

SONOS - How you can instantly go from loving and respecting a brand, to being truly enraged and disillusioned by the same brand.

I have been a big fan of Sonos over the years and currently own 12 Sonos products, however to learn that I will have to pay out circa. £665 to simply upgrade my 2 x Play 5’s is an absolute joke! My Bridge and Connect devices will also be ‘out of date’ with no option to upgrade or replace. To only offer 30% against the cost of replacement products to loyal customers is quite frankly an insult, and I know others agree, and therefore feel a MINIMUM of 50% should be offered here! Even at 50% customers will be annoyed. Come on Sonos….you need to act quickly here if you are to rescue your brand!

L
Userlevel 5
Badge +1

 

Hi UKUser

I have just registered on trust pilot and posted my first review there. see the screen shot from trustpilot above, their trust rating is down to 1.3 out of 5

We need to ramp this up across more review platforms…

 

O

I wish Sonos would understand that the best customers are they ones they already have.

I am disappointed Sonos has decided to no longer support its earliest adopters. Sonos was not inexpensive to purchase for us, but its excellent quality justified the cost.

I understand if newer features can no longer be supported due to memory constraints.

I do hope that Sonos will ensure that these legacy products will still function, or in the very least give these “stranded” assets a future by providing instructions on how to upgrade their internals.

I simply do not wish to throw out my perfectly working systems and cannot afford to buy new systems, even with the 30% discount. The world cannot afford to just throw things out all the time just because they’re out of date.

I hope Sonos will support hardware/firmware upgrades on legacy equipment and will find a way to at least allow legacy equipment to remain functional and am willing to accept that the system may not be as feature-rich as newer generations.

I also hope that Sonos will ensure my legacy equipment can still be integrated with newer equipment. I’ve been dreaming of buying duplicate systems for true stereo, but this most recent update is shaking my confidence in incurring such an expense.

P

Like many of you, I have spent 000s of € on Sonos equipment. As a result of this abject betrayal, I will never be a customer again.

 

P.

S

I have been your loyal customer since 2010, when I purchased 2 x PLAY:5 (Gen1) speakers and a Connect:Amp to add my old speakers to the mix.

Over the years I have added 2 x One SL, 1 x Play:1 and 1 x Sub.

Total investment: upwards of $3000.

Everything works perfectly and I am extremely happy with my investment. Amazing products. 

Now half of the above is “legacy”. Presumably the same fate awaits the “modern” components a few years down the line. Actually, since I want to continue to use my system as today, i.e. a mix of legacy and modern components, then all components will stop receiving updates.

I am afraid this betrays the loyalty of your customers and breaches the contract of trust. Frankly, this an extremely poor customer experience and quite unacceptable given Sonos is a premium brand.

I know what I will do: I will keep on running my mixed (and defacto legacy) system until it dies -- or you stop supporting it. But I will not be spending any more dollars on Sonos. 

What a shame...

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