Control4 Integration with Sonos 7.0


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chicks wrote:

upstatemike wrote:


I haven't yet seen a credible reason why they cannot make old software versions available with the caveat that they are not supported. Most of the other connected home technologies I work with do allow you to downgrade with the understanding that you must upgrade to the current version before you can get support. if you then downgrade back to an older version that is on you. No credible alternative explanation has ever been offered for why Sonos cannot embrace this common practice.



Common practice? Examples? Certainly not offered by companies providing free lifetime support that Sonos is famous for doing so well. Allowing multiple firmware versions would be a support nightmare, increasing costs dramatically, to the point where Sonos would be forced to charge for it, like everyone else. No thanks!



Support nightmare? Increasing costs dramatically? I clearly stated right here in the paragraph you just quoted that they could offer previous versions with the caveat that they are NOT supported. Cost to Sonos is maintaining some release notes regarding the minimum version needed to use a given player model or feature. Maybe they have some other reason for not wanting to do this but I don't see it creating the support Armageddon you describe.
upstatemike wrote:



Support nightmare? Increasing costs dramatically? I clearly stated right here in the paragraph you just quoted that they could offer previous versions with the caveat that they are NOT supported. Cost to Sonos is maintaining some release notes regarding the minimum version needed to use a given player model or feature. Maybe they have some other reason for not wanting to do this but I don't see it creating the support Armageddon you describe.



I hesitate to get into this off-topic nonsense with you, because there is absolutely no amount of logic or technical expertise that will sway your decidedly illogical and non-technical opinion. But hey, in for a penny!

You have repeatedly asked for not just the continued release of old software, but also the ability to "not lose functionality". I define "losing functionality" as . . . well . . . actually losing functionality! As such, if I were to be playing Spotify on my version 4.X Sonos system, and Spotify changes to the web based API instead of the API used by 4.X, rendering my Spotify account useless on Sonos, I define that as "LOSING FUCNTIONALITY!!!"

Also, if I'm happily running my 4.X Sonos system, listening to BBC broadcasts via TuneIn, and all of a sudden the BBC changes to a different streaming format that is not supported by Sonos 4.X, I call that "LOSING FUCNTIONALITY!!!"

How about when Sonos is required to up the security access needed for AWS, such as they did for the Direct Control update, and all of a sudden your 4.X system can't log into the Sonos site, or access any of the AWS servers needed to stream online content? I define that as a big honking example of "LOSING FUCNTIONALITY!!!"

Need more?

As such, to not "lose functionality" Sonos would have to re-release every software version they have ever done, updating it to the new specs for every interface change by the dozens of streaming services they support. This is the support nightmare we speak of, not to mention against the TOS for iOS and thus not even possible.

Now go ahead and define "not losing functionality" to exclude the 92% of Sonos owners who stream from online services. I'm in the mood for a good laugh! ;)
Already explained the concept of release notes. If Spotify or Amazon makes a change that impacts an old release then update the release notes so people know what changed, why, and where they should go to complain about it (Amazon, Spotify, or whoever.) Or the user can decide which "Functionality" is more important to them, a deprecated Sonos feature such as an old hardware controller, or continued access to a streaming service since there is no longer a version that supports both. Point is the user gets to decide, all Sonos has to do is document what is available with each archived version. The 8% who don't care about streaming feel they are accommodated the best way feasible to maintain the functionality they want and the rest move forward as always. No support nightmare required.
Ahhhh, the old "functionality is up to the user to define" dodge. Real big difference from your original definitive statement that there should be "no loss of functionality". Goal posts are moving so fast, they now got wheels on them, folks!

But hey, I'll play along. Given your wishes and definitions, Sonos should open itself up to disclaimer after disclaimer, just to offer old versions of software which are only suitable for the tiny fraction of users who A. Don't use streaming (or are willing to part with this feature) and B. Want to use old software versions.

All the while taking the hit from those folks who never read the disclaimers or release notes who will clog the support lines or review columns with complaints that software willingly and freely offered by Sonos just doesn't work? And they are supposed to simply accept Sonos' disclaimer and lobby Spotify or Amazon to fix it? Seriously? From the guy who never misses an opportunity to shoehorn in a complaint about the Control4 interface not working, and blames it all on Sonos despite no proof; that's a pretty bold statement of hypocrisy.

Yeah . . . as I said, there is absolutely no amount of logic or technical expertise that will sway your decidedly illogical and non-technical opinion. Thanks for the laugh!
jgatie wrote:

Ahhhh, the old "functionality is up to the user to define" dodge. Real big difference from your original definitive statement ...



If by that you mean you raised concerns about the original premise and I advanced some additional thoughts on how those concerns might be addressed then yes the conversation has moved on.

jgatie wrote:

All the while taking the hit from those folks who never read the disclaimers or release notes who will clog the support lines or review columns with complaints that software willingly and freely offered by Sonos just doesn't work?.



Pretty much what already happens each time there is an update that folks don't like and find they cannot go back. If there was a way back it might actually reduce the some of the current support pressure.

jgatie wrote:

Yeah . . . as I said, there is absolutely no amount of logic or technical expertise that will sway your decidedly illogical and non-technical opinion. Thanks for the laugh!



Glad I could brighten your day.
Speaking as a Software Engineer with a background in rolling out all aspects of large scale projects, including analysis of ROI, I posit the positives of keeping multiple software versions that are of limited use to an extremely tiny fraction of your user base are far outweighed by the negative PR aspects and support costs I listed above. As to similarities to what happens today, not liking an aspect of a new feature is very different from going backwards and the software just not working any more. Your comparison is not apples to apples. I hate the new queue features and I am very vocal about it, but I wouldn't give up Google Play Music, Trueplay tuning, or being able to add new products to get it back. Not many would, I suspect.

On top of that, the sheer cost in man-hours of creating and maintaining a release methodology which allows this tiny minority to switch back and forth between many multiple versions would far exceed any cost benefit one may think it brings. This is especially true because by the very definition of your terms it is not likely to drive new sales, since taking advantage of this feature means one can never update their system with any future Sonos products.

But hey, at least I got you to drop the "no loss of functionality" mantra, if only because your original criteria was demonstrably impossible and you were backed into a corner. I wish you were able to apply that sort of insight to your whole idea, therefore realizing the more you apply your goalpost moves, the more watered down your original wishes become, and the user base you are actually serving declines to almost nothing. Who knows, if I keep shooting your silly ideas down like ducks on the wing, we may get there. Once again . . . baby steps. ;)

PS - I see you clipped my statement that it is only tiny fraction of Sonos users for which this would be helpful. That is one of, if not the single greatest factor, in figuring ROI. Convenient that you should ignore it.

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