AirPlay support - time to do it properly

  • 25 January 2017
  • 53 replies
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Sonos have had a form of AirPlay support for quite some time but frankly it has always been a disappointing kludge even if it got the job done. For those unaware the current and only solution involves buying an Apple AirPort Express WiFi basestation, you then connect the audio output from the AirPort Express to the audio input on a Sonos device. You would then AirPlay stream to the AirPort Express and it outputs to the Sonos.

This of course means spending more money for an AirPort Express or even several but also adds an extra device in the link with the possibility of additional overhead and small audio quality loss. In reality it was 'good enough'.

Unfortunately Apple have just discontinued both the AirPort Express and the AirPort Extreme. (The Extreme could not do this as it does not have an audio output.) No other device has ever offered this functionality. This means that going forwards it will effectively be impossible to use AirPlay audio streaming with Sonos. (I can see the secondhand prices of AirPort Express devices on eBay going up. 🙂 )

Therefore it is time for Sonos to solve this problem properly the way they should have done it in the first place which is to provide built-in support for AirPlay in their systems. Many AV Receivers e.g Denon, Yamaha, etc. have built-in AirPlay support as do other brands of wireless speakers e.g. Bowers & Wilkins. Whilst I believe most if not all of these are doing it by including a hardware chip with official AirPlay support the AirPlay protocol has been reverse engineered and open-sourced and implemented in many software programs purely as software. I believe the original need for the hardware approach was to include support for FairPlay protected music tracks but as iTunes music has not had such protection for many years and there are various legitimate approaches for upgrading your music to remove such FairPlay protection using a software only approach without FairPlay support is a realistic solution. (Obviously AirPlay Mirroring is never going to be possible with Sonos which is an audio only device so the fact you might need to stream FairPlay protected videos is not relevant.)

One could argue Sonos' previous short-sightedness is now coming back to bite them and if they had previously added this AirPlay chip when designing the new(er) Play 3, Play 5, etc. devices then most of their product line would already be compatible. (The older Sonos Connect devices might predate this.)

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53 replies

Airplay support would fix the wrong problem. It would be a Band-Aid.

Apple Music needs to enhance its API so one can 'love' tracks or maintain playlists directly from within Sonos. These functions are available with other services such as Deezer.

Alternatively Apple could facilitate direct Sonos player control from within the Apple Music app, such as with Spotify.
I don't really care how it gets done, I just want the integration to be better - I've spent (i dont know how many) thousands SONOSing my house. I'd just love to mange my music in one place.

While lobbying here is all well and good, as ratty says, the better solution would be for Apple to incorporate the features into their Sonos app implementation, or incorporate Sonos Direct Control into the Apple Music app. Since both of these require Apple's consent and development efforts, lobbying Apple would probably be far more effective than lobbying Sonos.
pretty much. the sonos community seems to be populated with people that talk down to anyone that asks questions or wants more from the speakers. not impressed. The speakers look interesting but lower quality than a wired solution and more restricted than other options.

Not talking down, just being blunt. If apparent "lack of flexibility, inability to control music if my iOS device goes outside of wifi range, poor 5.1 support" is something you feel is not for you, then Sonos is not for you. That's just reality. Horses for courses, and no amount of mollycoddling or sales PR from the posters here is going to change that. Sonos appeals to a great many users, it was never meant to be all things to all people. And that's OK.
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Airplay - why would they devote anytime to airplay. Apple doesn't even devote anything to it. If they were to support a new standard it would be something like Google Chromecast Audio which fits much more into the Sonos model of directly fetching audio vs. attempting to stream through a controller. Long post for a dead horse.
this argument by the way was totally spurious as it would equally apply to Google Chromecast.
Only if the device was mirroring its own audio to the Chromecast. For apps which formally support Chromecast the stream is handed off to the Chromecast device itself, for it to pull directly.

Therein lies the fundamental difference between Chromecast (and Sonos) and Airplay. In the latter case the stream has to traverse the local wireless network multiple times, and is dependent on the mobile. It's an inherently more fragile architecture.

Not for nothing have other manufacturers such as Bose dropped Airplay support.
AIrplay wasn't even done properly, as proven by the fact every alternative casting service since Airplay (Chromecast, Spotify Connect) uses the Sonos "stream direct from the source" method instead of the "use 3 times the bandwidth going through the unreliable mobile device" method of Airplay.
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I also never had problems with AirPlay. @chicks, are you Sonos' lawyer or something? The fact is AirPlay is available on more devices than Sonos will ever sell, so it is a big market. Why not make things compatible with one another? The cost of Sonos speakers is already on the higher end, so paying Apple royalties is not a reason. The products are even sold in Apple stores and advertised to work with Apple Music (you also get 3 months free when you purchase one).
Regarding the services, there are a lot available. The problem is the controller is not that user friendly and convenient to use compared to Apple software. Actually when I think about it, where is YouTube??? The biggest video network (music videos, live recordings, concerts, etc.) is missing.
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You may have noticed that Apple has quietly killed off its AirPlay devices. Hint?
OK, now I know you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about...
Apple has killed off their Macs? Or perhaps iPhones and iPads? Because when you say AirPlay devices, this is what it means.
Now, if you mean Airport devices, that's a whole other story. Apple calls their routers Airport. And even then I don't follow your logic. An Airport device is not needed to Airplay content. A basic router will do. And as others have said, AirPlay works without problems for many. Now, of course when someone has a problem, he will cry online about it. But all the other millions of people out there using it daily? What about them?
Shouldn't someone searching for a multi-room version of Airplay be complaining to Apple because Airplay can't do multi-room, rather than complaining to Sonos? It's not Sonos' (or Bose's) fault that Airplay can't natively do multi-room.
All my computers/network devices are Apple, my handheld devices are Android, and my music is from Sonos - the last after getting introduced to wireless streaming using Airplay via Airport Express. All I want is something that just works reliably without having to open the hood too often and each of my choices are based on that requirement.

Airplay did NOT work for me at home; too many stops/starts, especially in grouped mode when the home WiFi bandwidth was being used elsewhere. It would appear that the hub(router)/spoke architecture of Airplay isn't as robust as what Sonos does when in Sonosnet mode. Also, AFAIK, Airplay still does not do different music from one hub in the way Sonos can.

I could be wrong, but Airplay is clever marketing by Apple to extend the use of wireless repeaters/extenders into the home audio market. The occasional stuttering is never noticed while using AEX for the normal networking purposes, but these show up too frequently and become intrusive in playing music. Or so I have found. Which is why I discovered Sonos when my AEX experiences were exciting enough to open my eyes to wireless, internet music and the impending demise of legacy approaches to Home Audio, but the interruptions in music play were enough for me to hold on to all my legacy kit till I found something that works reliably. Within a year of Sonos use, I was able to get rid of most of that except passive speakers, and I can't see myself going back to Airplay for music needs.
Well, like I've said before here. I've used airplay extensively without any noticeable issues. Hours of uninterrupted audio streaming, seamless swapping between users giving presentations from devices in a conference room setting, parties with friends taking turns showing something on a screen or playing music from their devices.

I think since that reality of airplay is in my mind and probably the OP mind, we would reference airplay as what we want replicated with Sonos.

Since there are many things I want to steam that are not in the Sonos app, it looks like I'll need to find other solutions. Maybe one day the features that airplay allows will join with he benefits of Sonos, until then I'll have to keep searching and trying to piece something together from other options.
@serendipidytech. I think that's a perfectly reasonable view. Airplay clearly works well for some people and for what they want to do, and I have no wish or right to knock that. I just cannot see Sonos thinking it a good move and a good use of resource to add native support, which is why I can't see it happening.

What specifically do you want to do that you can't do without native Airplay on Sonos at the moment?

Edit: OK I looked back through the thread and what you want is device audio, as well as the playing of audio files. Well you are right, Sonos doesn't do that wirelessly. I don't want that, so Sonos is perfect for me. You do, so it isn't perfect for you. It would be a nice-to-have, but if it comes it will be Google Cast, I think, and not Airplay or Bluetooth.

I am sure you are aware that with a Sonos component that has a line-in, and a relatively cheap BT receiver, you could have what you want, or pretty close.
I did look at upgrading the the connect or play 5 with the line in, but I didn't see how that would allow the functionality of Sonos from device/system level audio. I can see it would allow me to send audio via Bluetooth (which I think we can all agree is pretty narly for audio steaming) to a single Sonos, but I don't see that I'd be able to send the same Bluetooth audio stream to multiple Sonos devices?
Sonos can share a single source with any or all Sonos devices in the same network. This is what multiroom wireless audio is all about.
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As Chicks said... any source that is playing on one Sonos device can be playing on any of the system's devices...

Lots of great detail here:

https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1091/~/using-line-in-on-sonos
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Have you tried AirSonos? http://airsonos.stephenwan.net/. I'm using it on a raspberry pi that is just hidden somewhere in my house
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Unfortunately Apple have just discontinued both the AirPort Express and the AirPort Extreme.

That's not true - the products are still for sale on the US and other Apple shop websites, and third party websites. Additionally Apple have not announced that they are discontinued. There have been some articles in the media speculating that they might be discontinued in the near future, but as far as I can tell this has not happened yet.
http://www.macworld.com/article/3154849/network-router/how-to-choose-the-best-wi-fi-replacement-for-your-apple-airport-routers.html
Apple last updated the AirPort Extreme and Time Capsule models internals in 2013 for the 802.11ac standard; the compact AirPort Express remains stuck in 2012.
which suggests there's no strategic support going forward.

Also, http://www.macworld.com/article/3162040/streaming-hardware/alternatives-to-apples-airplay.html
I literally have zero idea where the need is for this

Here is why -

I want to actively curate my music when I listen at work or at the gym. When listening to apple music / apple radio or anything else via SONOS, If I want to "love" a song or add it to an Apple Playlist, I cannot. I am forced to open apple music directly, search for the song through the app and do it that way. It's double the effort, which means I just don't do it. I can make SONOS playlists, but those I cannot listen to them when I am out. So Now I have to manage playlists in multiple places.

Apple Music is a premier choice "mostly" because of integration. Native SONOS airplay support would be so freaking awesome.
I don't really care how it gets done, I just want the integration to be better - I've spent (i dont know how many) thousands SONOSing my house. Sonos however will never be as far reaching as apple's own music service, so I'd love the support to mange my music in one place. I pretty much never use Sonos playlists....
Oh don't worry, will post to apple as well.
Indeed, lobby Apple.

Apple have never, to my knowledge, said they won't make the sorts of sensible integrations outlined.
I'd just love to mange my music in one place.

the better solution would be for Apple to incorporate the features into their Sonos app implementation, or incorporate Sonos Direct Control into the Apple Music app. [/quote]
Depending on exactly what "manage music in one place" means, one of the above is better suited. Ideally, both should be done. With Apple busy and orienting towards Home Pod and Sonos towards Alexa, I don't see it happening soon, unfortunately, no matter where the lobbying is done.
Wrong quote attribution, sorry!
I literally have zero idea where the need is for this

I use Downcast to listen to podcasts. Downcast is not on the list of blessed services allowed to work in the Sonos app. With Airplay I could stream it to the speakers. Without it I have to stream to other speakers or change how I manage my podcasts.

That's one example.
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I literally have zero idea where the need is for this

I use Downcast to listen to podcasts. Downcast is not on the list of blessed services allowed to work in the Sonos app. With Airplay I could stream it to the speakers. Without it I have to stream to other speakers or change how I manage my podcasts.

That's one example.


You need to lobby Downcast. Sonos provide a platform under their Music Partners Program for service provide to provide their own interface into Sonos.